Israel launches aerial assaults on Gaza

[hnumpah]

Do you really favor that the right of return be a real right for everyone displaced since 1967?

I favor it for any displaced refugees.

Is there any way to enforce this in South East Asia?

There may not be a way to enforce it, but the US does not have to support governments that refuse to allow it, with billions in aid and military assistance. Kill two birds with one stone - stop supporting a regime bent on ethnic cleansing, and cut the budget by billions at the same time.

[Xavier_Onassis]

The US has no major interest in returning refugees to SE Asia. Palisrael is different,and must be addressed separately. I agree with Hnumpah that there should be a right of return recognized for those who were driven out of Israel. To say that other Arabs have an obligation to resolve the mess created by Zionist colonialism is cynical and useless. To claim that "there is no such thing as a Palestinian" is monumentally ignorant.

[sirs]

Since right of return is a non-starter, where do we go from there?  If there is no other "where", outside of beating one's chest as to there has to be a right of return, then the situation has no chance of resolvement outside of further full-scale war, and then deal with what's left from the ashes.  Not a solution I'd be supportive of, but if there are no others, then.....well, that's what's going to happen

[Xavier_Onassis]

All we know is that sirs is too dumb to imagine that acknowledging that people have a right of return is not the same as them actually returning. The one sure thing is that sirs will not be in charge of negotiations. It would be like sending Ann Coulter in on the US Olympic Weightlifting Team,but not quite so amusing.

[Christians4LessGvt]

Since right of return is a non-starter, where do we go from there?

War!
Throughout human history these issues have mostly been decided by war.
The sooner Israel destroys the enemies will to fight, the better.
Had we left the Nazis or Indians with a will to fight...we'd still be at war with them.
Israel should have never turned Gaza back over to those murderous bastards.
Israel needs to draw a clear line and enforce it.
One rocket lands in Israel the country it is launched from loses 10,000 people.
It's really up to the rocket launchers how many dead they want.
The rocket launchers control their own fate.
I would put up with this crap about as long as the US would if rockets were coming from Mexico.

[Christians4LessGvt]

SIRS....it's not possible to negotiate with people
whose goal is to wipe you off the face of the earth.
They want no truce....it's a waste of time....a farce.

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/3638.htm

[sirs]

SIRS....it's not possible to negotiate with people
whose goal is to wipe you off the face of the earth.
They want no truce....it's a waste of time....a farce.

It's kinda what I thought as well, especially considering how we're not seeing any suggestions that could overt war, and still give Israel security.  Go Israel.....your survival depends on it.  amazing how we're kinda witnessing the mindset of some vast need to rid the region of Israel.  One would have thought we learned that lesson the 1st go around......and here we are again, watching people actually not defend Israel's right to exist....that they're actually the bad guys in this story.  Again, not that they're hands are crystal clean, but as far as "blame" for the current crisis escalating in the Middle east, they're somewhere in the 15% to blame range. 

To Xo's credit, at least he made an effort, with a suggestion, that didn't include non-starters.  But nothing seems to have prompted any follow-up or alternatives, that are ripe for debating, in this, a debate forum

[Plane]

I don't see much future in a two state solution.

Every step ever taken in that direction has had negative results.

If Isreal were to agree to move to the 1967 borders and allow Jeruslem to become the capitol of an Arab state for the first time ever, they could easily have the same problem they have right now with Gaza only moreso.

What I expect to happen is both sides seeking better wepons and taking harder lines with outside partys trying to prevent full war but bankrolling deadly protracted half war.

My expectation is merely projecting the past as it runs into the future, so I expect lots more ugly scenes on the TV including killings staged just for the purpose of producing ugly scenes on our TVs as well as killing for spite and for retaliation.

Gaza is doing something they did not need to , if there had been no upgrading of missles and no use of those upgraded missles they would be no poorer or worse off.

Isreal is retaliating , and if their retaliation is well targeted I think it proper, I am dismayed at the smashing of media offices , that is a poor choice of target , seems like witness intimidation and I think Isreal will see negative effect from that.

In sum , this is on track to get worse , and by the time it is over there will be bloody hands on all left standing.

[Plane]

My Idea of solution is integration.

The Aparthied that both sides are busy enforcing and the international community is expensively promoting , only make the crudest and largest wepon easy to aim.

Whether you are firing east or west the environment is target rich, whether you are firing a suicide bomber or a Mavrick Missle it is often a safe assumption that the building or even the block it will land on has none of your friends in it.

The seaprateness is self enforced and self reinforcing with less and less acnoledgement of the opponents humanity as time goes on.

When individual Arabs have met individual Jews in times past one would hire the other more often than any transaction of violence , bad leadership overcomes the common mans common sense.

There are a few small efforts at coming together that still survive and swim counter the tide that sweeps the region twards war , I pray for them , not because they have a great chance for the production of peace , their chances are slim for success.

The idea of two states has no chance at all for producing a peace , and the success of any other idea is a wipeout of one side, a wipeout solution has the virtue of being kinda likely , it has good chances of happening. A Wipeout has the drawback of being partially or totally mutual , if you want to call that success.

[Christians4LessGvt]

, but as far as "blame" for the current crisis escalating in the Middle east

SIRS....this Arab newspaper says Iran is behind latest Gaza flareup...big surprise. 



The solution to Gaza? Return to Syria!

17/11/2012

By Tariq Alhomayed - Editor in Chief

Unfortunately, wars in our region have become like a race, so each war is to cover another one. In other words, these wars are nothing more than a move to escape forward. Therefore what is happening in Gaza is escaping forward, particularly in the hope of saving al-Assad or at least ensuring that the cost of toppling him will be greater for everybody. The greatest architect of such wars is Iran, from the unmanned Ayoub drone, not to mention all the attempts in the Sinai Peninsula. When the Golan front did not move quickly enough for al-Assad and Iran, they resorted to the Gaza front, because this can be inflamed far quicker, whilst it is also easier for Israel in this regard.

For Israel, Gaza is like a punching bag that can be used for training and muscle flexing, whilst success in Gaza would strike several ?files? in one go. In Gaza, Tel Aviv is able to crush Hamas and embarrass Egypt and Mursi, who will be the biggest loser in this battle, no matter what he does. This is because if Mursi succeeds politically he will lose his popularity and vice versa, that is of course unless the Egyptian president is able to pull off a political miracle that reflects his cunning. However his choices are severely limited. As for Israel, striking Gaza sends a strong message to al-Assad and clips Iran?s wings, particularly in the event that there is an Israeli strike on Iran. Above all else, Israel striking Gaza strengthens Netanyahu?s chances at the forthcoming elections.

Very well, but what about Syria? Now, the best solution to get out of this war ? or air strikes ? in Gaza is to return to Syria, and strongly, for whoever is responsible for the launch of the home-made rockets in Gaza did this whilst being well aware that there is no equivalence. The whole purpose of this was to save al-Assad, whose days are numbered; indeed his ouster is just around the corner! This is also a war to distract the Arab parties, particularly as we have seen a series of outbidding today. Therefore the Arabs have been unable to ask the fundamental question, namely: who incited the Gaza front? And why now? This is an essential question, particularly as Hassan Nasrallah is calling on the Arabs to pressure the US to stop the aggression. So why isn?t Nasrallah asking the agents of Iran in Gaza to stop pushing the Gaza Strip into the unknown? Why did he, and Iran, not ask al-Assad to stop the violence against the people of Syria? This is a series of outbidding, and everybody is playing this game.

What I want to say here is: who knows what will happen? The magic may turn against the magician, for the armed Palestinian groups in Gaza, including Hamas, do not want to continue the fighting, because they are incapable of this, whilst Israel does not want to prolong this aggression because it believes it has already made achievements, and on several levels. As for Mursi?s Egypt, it does not want, nor can it bear, this crisis; nor does the international community want this either.

Therefore, the best way to escape from Gaza now is to quickly return to Syria, for the Gaza fire was the result of an al-Assad spark, and from here the magic may turn against the magician, particularly as everybody is convinced of the threat represented by the al-Assad regime and the need to topple it. The solution to Gaza is to return to Syria, and accelerate the ouster of the criminal regime of the tyrant of Damascus.

http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=2&id=31846

[sirs]

Yep, no surprise there.  War by proxy, and the Palestinians get squashed in the middle   

[BSB]

Israel is screwed. They can't do anything about Iran. They can't stop Hamas except periodically. The Arab world is on fire and they can't do a thing about it.  They get their marching orders from us and most Americans are sick and tired of the problem. They'll never be able to do anything but buy periodic peace. Screwed.

Why would anyone live in Israel?

BSB

[sirs]

The Middle East is screwed.  At least Israel has the ultimate weapon as the last deterrent.  Good luck fellas, as our strongest ally in the region, we'll have your back

[BSB]

"At least Israel has the ultimate weapon as the last deterrent."

The smell of napalm in the morning argument.  Does it smell like victory?


BSB

[sirs]

Nope, sure doesn't.  Hate to see it come to it though.  Sad.  Israel has to do, what Israel has to do to survive.  We sure as hell would (fight back), if our way of life was being threatened.  And if became a situation where we were being surrounded, and had no other alternative, then yea, we'd pull out our last resort weapon as well.  We've actually had practice at it.  Killed thousands, saved millions