Author Topic: Why was there war in Gaza?  (Read 1075 times)

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sirs

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Why was there war in Gaza?
« on: November 23, 2012, 01:14:09 PM »
Why was there an Israel-Gaza war in the first place? Resistance to the occupation, say Hamas and many in the international media.

What occupation?

Seven years ago, in front of the world, Israel pulled out of Gaza. It dismantled every settlement, withdrew every soldier, evacuated every Jew, leaving nothing and no one behind. Except for the greenhouses in which the settlers had grown fruit and flowers for export. These were left intact to help Gaza’s economy — only to be trashed when the Palestinians took over.

Israel then declared its border with Gaza to be an international frontier, meaning that it renounced any claim to the territory and considered it an independent entity.

In effect, Israel had created the first Palestinian state ever, something never granted by fellow Muslims — neither the Ottoman Turks nor the Egyptians who brutally occupied Gaza for two decades before being driven out by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War.

Israel wanted nothing more than to live in peace with this independent Palestinian entity. After all, the world had incessantly demanded that Israel give up land for peace.

It gave the land. It got no peace.
  (sirs reminds folks why land for peace is a non-starter)

The Gaza Palestinians did not reciprocate. They voted in Hamas, who then took over in a military putsch and turned the newly freed Palestine into an armed camp from which to war against Israel. It has been war ever since.

Interrupted by the occasional truce, to be sure. But for Hamas a truce — hudna — is simply a tactic for building strength for the next round. It is never meant to be enduring, never meant to offer peace.

But why, given that there is no occupation of Gaza anymore? Because Hamas considers all of Israel occupied, illegitimate, a cancer, a crime against humanity, to quote the leaders of Iran, Hamas’s chief patron and arms supplier. Hamas’s objective, openly declared, is to “liberate” — i.e., destroy — Tel Aviv and the rest of pre-1967 Israel. Indeed, it is Hamas’s raison d’etre.

Hamas first killed Jews with campaigns of suicide bombings. After Israel built a nearly impenetrable fence, it went to rockets fired indiscriminately at civilians in populated areas.

What did Hamas hope to gain from this latest round of fighting, which it started with a barrage of about 150 rockets into Israel? To formally translate Hamas’s recent strategic gains into a new, more favorable status quo with Israel. It works like this:

Hamas’s new strength comes from two sources.

First, its new rocketry, especially the Fajr-5, smuggled in from Iran, that can now reach Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, putting 50 percent of Israel’s population under its guns.

Second, Hamas has gained strategic strength from changes in the regional environment. It has acquired the patronage and protection of important Middle Eastern states as a result of the Arab Spring and the Islamist reversal in Turkey.

For 60 years, non-Arab Turkey had been a reliable ally of Israel. The vicious turnaround instituted by its Islamist prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, reached its apogee on Monday when he called Israel a terrorist state.

Egypt is now run by Hamas’s own mother organization, the Muslim Brotherhood, of which Hamas is simply the Palestinian wing. And the emir of Qatar recently visited Gaza, leaving behind a promise of a cool $400?million.

Hamas’s objective was to guarantee no further attacks on its leaders or on its weaponry, launch sites and other terror and rocket infrastructure. And the lifting of Israel’s military blockade, which would allow a flood of new and even more deadly weapons. In other words, immunity and inviolability during which time Hamas could build unmolested its arsenal of missiles — until it is ready to restart the war on more favorable terms.

Yet another hudna, this one brokered and guaranteed by Egypt and Turkey, regional powers Israel has to be careful not to offend. A respite for rebuilding, until Hamas’s Gaza becomes Hezbollah South, counterpart to the terror group to Israel’s north, with 50,000 Iranian- and Syrian-supplied rockets that effectively deter any Israeli preemptive attack.

With the declaration of a cease-fire Wednesday, Israel seems to have successfully resisted these demands, although there may be some cosmetic changes to the embargo. Which means that in any future fighting, Israel will retain the upper hand.

Israel has once again succeeded in defending itself. But, yet again, only until the next round, which, as the night follows the day, will come. Hamas will see to that.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Why was there war in Gaza?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2012, 01:25:12 PM »
Why is Hamas celebrating a victory?

sirs

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Re: Why was there war in Gaza?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2012, 01:49:38 PM »
I think its because they get to restock & rearm for the next round, while Israel is supposedly not allowed to take out any additional Hamas leaders
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Why was there war in Gaza?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2012, 01:55:31 PM »
Hamas is not controlled by the Egyptians.If it were, why would the Israelis bother assassinating a mere flunky?

There was a war because Netanyahu provoked it with his hit squad.He will now get a lot more votes.

Gaza continues to be an open air jail and concentration camp.

%The beatings will continue until morale improves.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Why was there war in Gaza?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2012, 02:03:07 PM »
Hamas is not controlled by the Egyptians.If it were, why would the Israelis bother assassinating a mere flunky?

Somone running Hamas is not some flunky.  Recall that Hamas has been deisgnated by THIS country as a terrorist organization.  Nor is anyone claiming that Hamas is "controlled" by Egypt.  Arguing yet a nother point never made?


There was a war because Netanyahu provoked it with his hit squad.

Taking out a Hamas version of Bin Laden, is hardly unjustified


He will now get a lot more votes.

Irrelevent to the recent Gaza conflict, though for Israel's sake, I hope he wins

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Why was there war in Gaza?
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2012, 02:08:03 PM »
I do not actually give a flying fork that Hamas has been designated as anything. Cuba has also been designated as a terrorist organization by Republican morons.

This stupid post claims that Hamas is the servile puppet of the Muslim Brotherhood, and it is not.

BB provoked this for votes, just like Ariel Sharon provoked an Intifada by going for a stroll with his pals on the grounds of the Al Aksa Mosque, also for votes. Just a typical Likud trick.

If someone shoots this guy, everyone will be better off.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Why was there war in Gaza?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2012, 02:13:50 PM »
I do not actually give a flying fork that Hamas has been designated as anything.

Ignorance is indeed bliss


This stupid post claims that Hamas is the servile puppet of the Muslim Brotherhood, and it is not.

No, it claims there are distinct connections, and that Egypt is in a position to help direct Hamas actions, though Iran has far more influence, and if anything is Iran's puppet.  In no way is there ever a claim that Egypt controls Hamas.  That's your illogic leap

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Why was there war in Gaza?
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2012, 02:22:46 PM »
I do not actually give a flying fork that Hamas has been designated as anything. Cuba has also been designated as a terrorist organization by Republican morons.

This stupid post claims that Hamas is the servile puppet of the Muslim Brotherhood, and it is not.

BB provoked this for votes, just like Ariel Sharon provoked an Intifada by going for a stroll with his pals on the grounds of the Al Aksa Mosque, also for votes. Just a typical Likud trick.

If someone shoots this guy, everyone will be better off.

I remember that.

As if the guy had no right to walk arond the temple area.

Palestenians are indeed irritable and malliable.

During this next peacefull period the Iranians ware going to give the Palestinians enough rockets , that the cash equivelent of same , would build a Harbor and a University.
It ought ot be noted that the IDF will also reload and upgrade , that Iron Dome needs to be a bit stiffer, and their means of locating launchers needs to be a bit faster.

Then the next time that Syria, Iran or Likhud feels the heat, they will use the Palestinians to apply the 5th law of thermodynamics;
When the heat is on someone elese , the heat is off you.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Why was there war in Gaza?
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2012, 02:30:38 PM »
Egypt is now run by Hamas’s own mother organization, the Muslim Brotherhood, of which Hamas is simply the Palestinian wing. And the emir of Qatar recently visited Gaza, leaving behind a promise of a cool $400?million.

==================================================
"simply the Palestinian wing"  That is in this idiotic article.

Hamas gets aid from Iran because it suits the ayatollahs' purposes to do something to show the Iranians that they are capable of SOME effect outside Iran to the Iranians, who are suffering mightily because of the embargo.

Hamas is Sunni, Iran is Shiite. They use each other, but basically, each considers the other as heresy.

The Emir of Qatar has his own purposes, different from the Iranians. He has been a force for good in the Arab world.

Screw Netanyahu, Screw whatever is left of Shamir, screw the memory of Menachem Begin. Likud is half the problem, the Palestinian leaderships are the other half of the problem.

These guys are like Moe,Shemp and Larry with a 12 foot 2X6 and a rack full of banana creme pies
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Why was there war in Gaza?
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2012, 02:40:57 PM »
If the Emir of Qutar spends 400 million on Gaza.

I hope it is earmarked for agricultural equipment so they can eat.

Well drilling trucks so they can drink.

Hospitals so they won't need to cross the border for treatments.

Hotels and resort equipment so they can exploit their good climate and beachfrount.

Other infrastructure as needed to support the lives and livelihoods of Palistenians.

Perhaps if they had something to loose , war would not be an attractive idea.

I expect Iran will spend much more than the Emir of Qatar, but it will mostly be artillery.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Why was there war in Gaza?
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2012, 03:48:17 PM »
I doubt that Iran has a much money to spend on anything.

I don't know what the Emir of Qatar has in mind.

Hamas needs better leadership: those rockets are not solving any problems.This time, all they did is assure Netanyahu's reelection. That does not benefit the people of Gaza one bit. In the long term, he will not benefit Israel, either.

I am pretty sure that there have been secret negotiations between Hamas and the Israelis,and suspect they simply broke down.


Again, Gandhi would have a far better plan than anything any Palestinian leaders have thought up. Too bad he is not around.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Why was there war in Gaza?
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2012, 07:46:38 PM »
I doubt that Iran has a much money to spend on anything.

I don't know what the Emir of Qatar has in mind.

Hamas needs better leadership: those rockets are not solving any problems.This time, all they did is assure Netanyahu's reelection. That does not benefit the people of Gaza one bit. In the long term, he will not benefit Israel, either.

I am pretty sure that there have been secret negotiations between Hamas and the Israelis,and suspect they simply broke down.


Again, Gandhi would have a far better plan than anything any Palestinian leaders have thought up. Too bad he is not around.


I don't know what the Emir of Qatar has in mind either, but if it improves the infrastructure , promotes employment , improves standard of living or improves education, I shall say it is praiseworthy.

Iran is giving even more , but it isn't cash , it is rockets.

I agree that if a leader could emulate Tolstoy, Gandhi or Dr.MLKjr.,the program of peaceful protest could very well bear fruit, I disagree that such leadership is not around , it probably is around , but is being shouted down.

Gandhi is a grand example , his efforts continued for decades and his followers trained with discipline, peace isn't easy.