....and then there are other ways

[sirs]

I was wrong to think that by posting a thread requesting a more civil discourse would actually facilitate such.  But I'll be damned if I let anyone get away with trying to claim that effort was some sinister act of provocation.  Plane understood precisely what I was trying to do, yet the thread was closed making it appear that I was some boogieman, and preventing me from defending myself

It's one thing when my sincere intentions are erroneously & wrecklessly trashed, by someone(s) else.  Quite another when a thread is manipulated to make it something it never was, when it was closed the way it was.  That's a really unfortunate turn of events here in the saloon, where flame wars were routine and allowed to run wild.   I don't curse, I avoid flame wars, I've even criticized folks "on my side" when I felt they were going overboard in the curse &/or inappropriate rhetoric.

No one, including H, has any obligation to post or respond to anything I say/type.  That said, if/when they do, I should have an absolute right to defend myself when completely bogus claims are being made about me.  I feel sad for the state of the saloon when we're not allowed that right, and have to start a different thread to get that point across

[hnumpah]

I was wrong...

The first thing you have gotten right.

No one, including H, has any obligation to post or respond to anything I say/type.

Nor do you have any obligation to drag my name into any discussion, given that I made it perfectly clear I was finished with you. 

That said, if/when they do, I should have an absolute right to defend myself when completely bogus claims are being made about me.

Okay, let's talk bogus claims. Your bogus claims -

1. That I was making some sort of plea when there was none to be made and no reason for me to do so.

2. That I was backing off some position I had never taken.

3. Putting words into my mouth, twice, that I was able to show I had never said.

And I walked away from that entire discussion and made it very clear I wanted nothing else to do with you, and had not posted again at all until you posted your 'olive branch' talking about me as though I was some cur dog out to do nothing but stir up trouble. Well, you got it. I apologize to BT and Plane and the rest in here, but until you end it by shutting your mouth about me, I intend to go on defending myself. Your call.

[sirs]

And here Bt did everything he could to put this to bed, even giving H the upper hand, and preventing any response from me to Bt's last post, but nooooooo, H has to kick start it all over again.  And I'm the one supposedly yapping.

You really want to start this back and forth again?  You really want me to pull those posts that explain in great detail how you did dodge those earlier questions, you're referring to?  You really want me to re-demonstrate this ongoing double standard you have in claiming things I'm supposedly doing, while you perform the same act in spades??

No problem, when I have some more time, I'll repost all those in here and in subsequent posts as needed, ...  as I said,  I'll be damned if I let anyone get away with trying to claim that my effort at advocating a more civil discourse, was some sinister act of provocation.  You read into the threads what you wanted to H, nothing more.  I'll be back with more detail, as time allows

[Plane]

Life is short.

[sirs]

So is Warwick Davis

[Plane]

I shall assume that I am understood this time.

[sirs]

You're generally very plane in your comments         I hope I can be just as plane in defending myself from pretty wreckless accusations

[hnumpah]

And here Bt did everything he could to put this to bed, even giving H the upper hand, and preventing any response from me to Bt's last post...

I'm not concerned that you didn't get to respond to BT's post closing the thread, my point is you responded to mine.

You really want me to pull those posts that explain in great detail how you did dodge those earlier questions, you're referring to?

Go for it. Show me where I took any kind of stand on Obama's remark about terrorist acts, other than he made it, and later that it would be interesting to see how things shook out. Then explain to me how, without taking a stand, I could plead anything or back away from any position.

You really want me to re-demonstrate this ongoing double standard you have in claiming things I'm supposedly doing, while you perform the same act in spades??

Sure. Hurts when you get your tactics thrown back at you, dunnit?

[Plane]

Too many teachers , not enough students .

[sirs]

So true........and here is the little trap that H, as well as myself apparently find ourselves in.  I'll deal with his wreckless accusations later, when I have more time, but what we have here is H's perceived "being attacked" and his need to "defend himself".  So what he does is attack me, making these continued wreckless erroneous claims as to my real intentions, with all levels of cursing & insults tossed in for good measure, requiring me to demonstrate where he is in error, basically defending myself....which then he perceives as "being attacked" and his need to defend himself.........and the viscious cycle prevails

But at least he's finally conceded in perpetuating precisely that in which he claims I do.  In that, there's some progress, I suppose. 

You did grasp what my initial efforts & intentions were Plane, and I thorougly appreciate it.  Too bad others couldn't have learned from the master teacher, including myself

[BT]

You did grasp what my initial efforts & intentions were Plane, and I thorougly appreciate it.  Too bad others couldn't have learned from the master teacher, including myself

Actually Plane did a rewrite of your original post, thus rendering it non-offensive, whether that was your intent or not.

I propositioned that you might not be aware of your offensiveness. Others agreed with that hypothesis.

I understood your request for civility. I did not see the need to point fingers while asking for civility. So in that sense your effort was doomed to failure and your tactic wrong for the situation.

That of course is my opinion, you are free to argue against it, but your efforts would be futile.

[sirs]

If you understod my request of civility to be sincere, that is a defacto reference that H was wrong in claiming it wasn't.  Yet there you were closing the thread, inferring he could be right, ("not sure bear was wrong") and that I alone needed to go back and re-read, re-think everything.

He was wrong.  Has been since his 1st posting in that thread.  I realize its futile to expect H to believe that.  He's made up his mind, and damn anything to the contrary.  You then enabled it, and even gave it the seal of approval with your last post, and closing of the thread. 

So, in expecting a bit of objective treatement, that too would seem to be futile. 

But per H's mandate, I'll endeavor to repost those threads that show him where he was in error, along with the hypocrisy of performing precisely that which he claims I'm doing.  And I'll do it again without all the 3rd grade cursing and insults

At some point perhaps, you can demonstrate how again I'm supposedly performing some "offensive act" that I'm not aware of, although folks cursing and insulting every other post they don't agree with, apparently isn't offensive.  And correct me if I'm wring, but I think the "others" who agreed, would be a pair of those mentioned in the 1st post of the original thread at issue.  Not too earth shattering

[BT]

There you go again. Where did i say it was sincere?

[sirs]

It appeared so with your reference to my intent.  So, you don't believe it was either?  ok,  Now I see why you closed the thread the way you did, propping H's erroneous conclusions, and removing any sign of objective leadership on this issue

Makes you both wrecklessly wrong, though at least you haven't down shifted into the namecalling.  So I guess that's ....... something

[BT]

 

And correct me if I'm wring, but I think the "others" who agreed, would be a pair of those mentioned in the 1st post of the original thread at issue.  Not too earth shattering

Reread the thread.