Author Topic: ....and then there are other ways  (Read 10637 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ....and then there are other ways
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2012, 10:27:20 AM »

Minus the verbosity, how'd I do Plane?


Since you asked.

Brace yourself.

Minus the verbosity would have improved it , but the central point still seems to be that you are not to blame for the felt offence.

Stop that , it is pointless.

You may be right, but just as pointless if you are wrong.

Here is the truth.

I am at fault .

Me , Myself, mea culpa.

I am at fault unless it is impossible for me to be at fault , and that is something you will have to prove.
I really don't see how you could prove I am not at fault with anything less than a doctorial thesis.
And if you do that , I shall find whatever single flaw in its mass there may be and curtly dismiss the whole thing.

So it is my fault , I want it to be my fault , and I shall fight you for this fault till my keybord runs with the blood of my fingertips!

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ....and then there are other ways
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2012, 11:04:32 AM »
...



H , I greeted your recent  arrival with more joy than I let on.

I invited you with barely concealed urgency to engage in debate.

Maybe I should not have.Maybe I should have been less selfish.

I know you to be an able debtor, and I do not know yet of any thing that should attach any dishonor to you.

Please accept my apology for the harm and hurt and distress you feel.

And do what is right for yourself.

I am still selfish enough to invite you again to stay and debate.

But I acknowledge that I have no right to impose on you and no legitimate claim on your generosity.

If your decision is to not post and not join into our debates , this is our loss and my fault.
But I would be pleased to think that you have done for yourself what is right for yourself , and cancelled thereby my selfishness.

If you are not enjoying what happens here ,nor learning something new , nor exercising skill to sharpen it, nor teaching the less experienced, then there is nothing this site has to offer you .


If you decide to stick around , I cannot promise you better than you have already seen, the typical is the typical. But your input has a lot of potential to raise the bar , elevate the debate, raise the curve and instruct the ignorant (me).

So yet again I risk blame by selfishly inviting you to stay and play here. Don't feel unwelcome , just evaluate whether the balance tips for you in favor or no.


In short, you are welcome to do as you will.

With my thanks for what you have already done , and my apologies for the unrecompensed cost and harmed feelings.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 11:21:45 AM by Plane »

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ....and then there are other ways
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2012, 11:58:47 AM »
...Where was the "obligation"?  I referenced specifically those who had fallen off the insult bandwagon, especially as it relates to the level of vitriole being thrown in my direction.  You were one of them, that's why your name came up.  It was neither "dragged", nor were you obligated to respond.  Simple as that

And once again, you had NO reason to bring my name into the matter, since I had been gone for two days and made it clear when I left I wanted nothing more to do with you.

And once again, since it was you and a 2 others providing all the vitriole, I had every good reason, that I've already explained,..... in spades.  Not to mention, you had no obligation to respond, and thus continued to have "nothing more to do with me".  You read into it, what you wanted to, nothing more


...You weren't making any "plea"...

You're damned right I wasn't. I also wasn't backing off any previous position I had taken, or caught with my hand in a cookie jar, or any of that other crap you kept slinging my way. I posted exactly what Obama said the day after the attack, and that was it, PERIOD. I took no position on it one way or the other.

Actually you did, which again, I've explained..... in spades.  Your mileage may vary


...You were dodging a direct question...

Show me please, the forum rule that states I have to answer any question I do not feel like answering?

See....you can't have it both ways.  You can't say you answered the question, then turn around and say you have no obligation in answering a question.  Of course you don't have to answer it, especially if answering it happens to debunk an original stance you were taking.....that Obama was referencing Benghazy specifically as a Terrorist Act, repeating his words in the Rose Garden, while nicely ignoring everything else he had said, or more importantly didn't say, when HE was asked a question he apparently didn't feel like answering.

Thank you for helping to make my point


I am well aware what I posted and when it was said, and that was my sole intent, to rebut the claim Obama had not referred to it as a terrorist act. That should have made it clear to you, the first time I repeated that, that that was as far as I was willing to go on the issue. You do have a problem letting things go.

And that position was found wanting, when you don't take his comments in a vacuum, and allow the rest of what he said to be said in context, along with what he said immediately after, and even a week after.  Apparently you didn't want to have to deal with the forest, and just hung on to one branch of a tree.  Great strentgh and focus to do that, I'll grant you that, but context really does help


...You're going to have to point to specifially what I claimed you never said.  Both times, if you don't mind...

1. You tried to claim I said Bush lied us into the war in Iraq. I showed you I never said Bush, personally, propogated the lie.

And I said, I see...I was wrong.  That's kind of how it works around here.  If a person makes an incorrect assumption, you merely correct him.  Nothing nefarious or sinister.  If I had continued to claim that despite facts to the contrary, THEN you can make such a claim.  That wasn't the case here...next


2. You kept yammering at me as though I had, in fact, taken some sort of position on the comment in the Rose Garden. That was what I asked you to prove, and you went after it saying you would 'meet my mandate' or some such nonsense. Days later, the big reveal, and - nothing. Nothing but a rehash that I refused to answer your question, as is my right. Nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. A big dud.

That wasn't me saying you said anything.  It was me showing how you dodged a question.  So, that wasn't the case of me saying you said something you didn't either.  Anything else?


By the way, you mentioned that hyper defensive thing again - grind this is your mill:

...But per H's mandate, I'll endeavor to repost those threads that show him where he was in error, along with the hypocrisy of performing precisely that which he claims I'm doing.  And I'll do it again without all the 3rd grade cursing and insults[/color]...

...For H: Good god, you are one paranoid uber defensive SOB...
 

Now, I don't know about where you come from, but most places I've been, SOB stands for son of a bitch.

Yea.....and?  I had lost all patience with your and your grammar school insults, H.  Yet, that said, I was willing to start us a new, with my sincere intention to request we all do a little better, at least over the Thanksgiving holiday. Then you went apesnot defensive mode with your wreckless rhetorical rant.  So I recipricated.....with not even the spelled out word, merely as abbreviation.  Did I make any claim, what-so-ever that I wouldn't recipricate?  In most places I've been people frequently respond in kind to how they're being treated.  I've actually been the one keeping the tone to a moderately civil level



Best I remember, the only two members of this forum I ever called sons of bitches were Kramer and Tee. And far as I’m concerned, they both deserved it.

So, in your world SOB is like....the n word??  Perhaps that's a communication issue, since in mine, there's a whole heap of words far nastier and demeaning than the abbreviation SOB.  Maybe we'll need to compare notes on that, some day


As for you, Sirs, you tried and failed miserably.

Oh, the irony


You tend to read things into what people say that just aren't there, or to assign them motives they do not have

We all do, several examples I've shown you doing, as of late


Now, I will once again spell it out for you, and make it perfectly clear. I do not intend to post in this forum again, to you or anyone else, as long as you drop it, meaning leave out any reference to me, by name or otherwise.

I'll endeavor not to mention you by name, any further H, but I will not refrain from noting posts of yours, or anyone for that matter, that tends to demonstrate some duplicity, at least until that perceived duplicity has been clarified.  I hope that's spelled out as well enough, and that we can now claim the issue dropped
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ....and then there are other ways
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2012, 12:29:45 PM »
I could read an apology in what you just wrote , or a demand for an apology, depending on what I read the emphasis into.

I only think I know what you mean, there are limits to language.

If your connotation and denotation do not match, is that because you are unclear or that I am?

You are defending the defense of the defense of a misunderstanding.

At some point in these iterations the point is lost in the swirl .

You can be sanguine rather than frustrated if you accept the idea that someone elese being wrong does not necessacerily hurt you, nor require any effort to fix.

Does it matter that I think you were right in the first place?

Not if the first place is fourty places ago and thirty nine of these places were noise.

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ....and then there are other ways
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2012, 12:37:23 PM »
A typical end to a typical sirs rant.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

hnumpah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
  • You have another think coming. Use it.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ....and then there are other ways
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2012, 01:09:56 PM »
Plane, it is not your fault. Maybe I expected too much of some in here, that they might have changed their method of debate. I suppose not. I get increasingly tired of having everything I say picked apart, searching for some hidden meaning, that just is not there. I am very aware of what I say, and how I say it, and exactly what I mean by it. Then to have someone try to imply some hidden meaning, or twist what I say to suit their purposes, it gets old fast. To keep coming at me with the same mindless, irrelevant questions over and over, to keep playing these gotcha games trying to score some stupid point somehow, is just not my thing. That's not debate, that's being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained, or in this case, nothing lost. It appears to have been a wasted effort.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ....and then there are other ways
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2012, 01:45:58 PM »
  I wish you wouldn't call it wasted , if any of us have learned or enjoyed some little thing of it that is all that can ever be expected.

   Debate is supposed to be adversarial , but not uncivil. As long as you find opposition to be fair you should not complain because fair opposition is exactly the best you can expect. When you find the opposition unfair you might as well not complain because unfair opposition is never receptive to criticism. I wish you enjoyed the thing we are doing , because you are good at it .

And I wish that you would not deny me my blame after I have so strenuously and clearly staked my right to have it, I have influenced these discussions and the outcome is as you see. If I am selfish enough to persuede you to bring input here and increase our standard, that is me being selfish and maybe you being generous.


Have you ever heard the one my great grand mother used to tell---
"Wish into one hand , shit into the other___ lets see which hand fills first."

 

BSB

  • Guest
Re: ....and then there are other ways
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2012, 02:04:18 PM »
If the keel of a boat is off center you can work from dawn to dusk on the rest of it and it still won't sail right. You can, and I have, yell at Sirs from dawn to dusk and he still won't get it because his keel is off center. Only he can fix that and I wouldn't recommend anyone hold their breath.

Of my immediate family where there were six there are now only two. My parents are gone, my brothers are gone, it's only my sister and I. Her keel is off center, and try as I have I can't do a thing about it. She just can't get it. Tragically its cost us all. Its cost my two brothers children the most. Sirs has cost us all. The level of communication has been brought down so far it's really not worth trying. The same is true where my sister is concerned. All we have really, between us humans, is our communication. When that goes, it all goes.


BSB


sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ....and then there are other ways
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2012, 02:32:03 PM »
Nothing ventured, nothing gained, or in this case, nothing lost. It appears to have been a wasted effort.

It's only wasted if you choose to waste it
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ....and then there are other ways
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2012, 03:23:50 PM »
If the keel of a boat is off center you can work from dawn to dusk on the rest of it and it still won't sail right. You can, and I have, yell at Sirs from dawn to dusk and he still won't get it because his keel is off center. Only he can fix that and I wouldn't recommend anyone hold their breath.

Of my immediate family where there were six there are now only two. My parents are gone, my brothers are gone, it's only my sister and I. Her keel is off center, and try as I have I can't do a thing about it. She just can't get it. Tragically its cost us all. Its cost my two brothers children the most. Sirs has cost us all. The level of communication has been brought down so far it's really not worth trying. The same is true where my sister is concerned. All we have really, between us humans, is our communication. When that goes, it all goes.


BSB

This is a profound remark, and I hope I really understand it before I disagree with it.

Don't fix everything, if that boat only sails in circles then it could be a pretty good ferry boat.

If you are the more understanding , then you are the stronger, the faster... and the right of way belongs to the slower boat.

Everyone has foibles some are more and some are less.

I feel responsible for the state of things here because I have made some mistakes , and that is where my fixing energy needs to go-mostly.

When sirs asked for an advice I felt like the time was ripe to give one, do you realise what a valuable moment that is ?

My father seldom gave me advice , I realised quite late he was waiting to be asked. 

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ....and then there are other ways
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2012, 04:26:10 PM »
Plane, you have nothing to apologise for or feel responsible for.  We all have our idiosyncrocies, and while mine isn't loaded with a bunch of demeaning insults, it is straightforward, and apparently others with a similar disposition of believing their word as gospel, like myself, can't be bothered with either backing up where I'm wrong and/or just throw garbage.  Here, in this thread alone, we've seen precisely why the three were mentioned in the 1st place.  Nothing provocative, nothing sinister, nothing personal.  The ONLY personal attribute to all this is 2fold, my goal of hoping that the Thanksgiving holiday would provide a step towards a better, more civil effort on debating, including from myself, and that was pissed on, almost immediately.  The other is your undenying effort to lead by example.  With that, we are profoundly thankful  (uh oh, I just put words into other people's mouths.  Perhaps they're not thankful at all.  bad sirs...bad sirs   ;)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16143
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: ....and then there are other ways
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2012, 04:51:21 PM »
 
Quote
We all have our idiosyncrocies, and while mine isn't loaded with a bunch of demeaning insults, it is straightforward, and apparently others with a similar disposition of believing their word as gospel, like myself, can't be bothered with either backing up where I'm wrong and/or just throw garbage.

What an illuminating insightful sentence.


sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ....and then there are other ways
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2012, 06:04:14 PM »
Not sure why......but ok, if you say so
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

hnumpah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
  • You have another think coming. Use it.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ....and then there are other ways
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2012, 07:18:34 PM »
...
We all have our idiosyncrocies, and while mine isn't loaded with a bunch of demeaning insults...

Really?

...For H: Good god, you are one paranoid uber defensive SOB...

Xo school of debate.....when you can't back up your asinine claims, keep throwing garbage.

Nice to see our resident ignorant leftists demonstrate yet again their supposed superior "I just know better" idiocy...

And another in a stellar string of Xo debating rhetoric.  Ignore all the substantive efforts, and throw garbage.  Bravo

Now, why would I post the comments about XO? Well, I've noticed in his back-and-forths with Plane, XO seems to manage to avoid the insults, because Plane manages not to just dismiss XO as ignorant, asinine, etc.

What do I get? I'm making some sort of plea, or backing off a postion I never took, or getting caught with my hand in the cookie jar. I'm dodging a question because I refuse to take a stand on an issue I never intended to address to begin with, and I am badgered over and over about it, long after I have made it clear I will not be pushed into addressing it. That's not demeaning or insulting? Having my every statement dissected for some hidden meaning, having my words twisted, having words put into my mouth, that is not demeaning or insulting? The profanity might not be there, but I find it every bit demeaning and insulting. The difference is I don't pull my punches. Once I've reached my limit, it's no holds barred.

Well, almost. I generally don't bring folks family, legitimacy of birth, ethnic group, or sexual orientation into the argument. I was born and raised in the South. There are limits to how far I will let someone push me before I lash back at them. Even then, there are limits to how far I will go.

Now, you think I'm talking out of my ass criticizing you for being uncivil, demeaning and downright insulting at times? Feel free to ask BT or Plane. You tend to keep pushing people and pushing people, and in my case you pushed just that much too far. Then you go crying foul, you're a victim, wah wah wah. Stop and take a good close look who instigated it.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ....and then there are other ways
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2012, 07:30:31 PM »
Sirs, I will apologise if I damn well please to apologise!

Don't try to stop me and don't try to cut in on my rightfull blame.

I shall be at fault for everything, and as responsible for as much as I can be .

What so many people do not realise is that responsibility is the closest relation to authority, no one can be blamed for what they do not controll!

So why do people dodge blame and freely give it away?

They do not know my plan for World domination!

I will take more and more blame untill I am to blame for eveerything in total!

Then I shall convert my awesome culpability into its requsite authority!

And then I shall be king KING I tell you king of the world!

Bwahahahahaa!

Today 3DHS, tomorrow the world!