Print a new body.

[Plane]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121121210109.htm


Just a proof of concept , a 3D printer that can turn out a shape made of cartledge.

This is pretty close to being very usefull for small replacement parts, and just the beginning of being replacements of whole organs and amputated limbs.

If this gets good enough , it will use stem cells and inert materaels to build you a spare you.

[Xavier_Onassis]

This is a very interesting topic, both technically and philosophically.

Suppose that at some point, we are enabled to store the total body image,  say  at age 23,and can then print out a state of the art copy, and  transfer our brain to it whenever we find that our old body has begun to fail us. This could give at least some people something rather close to immortality, But no doubt at a huge price, especially if all the processes are proprietary and patented.

Jesus was and still is hugely admired for curing a few lepers, but now leprosy is practically a thing of the past and I can't recall seeing even a picture of a statue of the doctors and pharmacologists that actually made this happen. I don't think that anyone even got a Nobel Prize for curing lepers.

I think that never dying at all is greatly preferable to being resurrected.

[Plane]

Yes there is a need for death that we never have to think about because until someday in the future it is unavoidable.

If we stop dieing , will we also stop reproducing?

I agree that the wealthy will have more life extention products first, the same way they got flat screen TV first, it is expensive to be an early adopter of technology .

Then as the techniques are learned , proven , refined, the techniques of mass manufacture lower the price.

This could be pretty sweet if it allows the prevention of extinction of endangered species , or not so good if we become a pestilence on the planet.

Perhaps we really do need to colonise space. Doubleing our lifespan would more than doubble the rate of population growth.

Do real Christians want this?
If you do not die , you could still see reserection in the rapture, but if the tecnique requires harvest of stem cells from embryos that must be destroyed in the process I couldn't want it.

How about real Hindus? Bhuddists? Avoiding death is natural but human nature has coped with the idea of inevitability in various ways, coping with the opposite idea will be a new difficulty.

I just had a thought , the very first of the early adopters might be the people in power in those countrys prone to gerontocracy, Fidel need never die , China could have a really permanant power structure.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I agree that the wealthy will have more life extention products first, the same way they got flat screen TV first, it is expensive to be an early adopter of technology .
==================================
Robert Heinlein speculated about this, and created the Lazarus Long Family, who were practically immortal,and of course, quite secretive about their investments and methods of longevity. In some of his books he plots the timeline of his characters and stories,and Lazarus Long was shown to outlive everyone.

Azimov wrote of  a very durable robot in Bicentennial Man, which was a pretty good film as well, starring Robin Williams as the protagonist.

[Plane]

I agree that the wealthy will have more life extention products first, the same way they got flat screen TV first, it is expensive to be an early adopter of technology .
==================================
Robert Heinlein speculated about this, and created the Lazarus Long Family, who were practically immortal,and of course, quite secretive about their investments and methods of longevity. In some of his books he plots the timeline of his characters and stories,and Lazarus Long was shown to outlive everyone.

Azimov wrote of  a very durable robot in Bicentennial Man, which was a pretty good film as well, starring Robin Williams as the protagonist.

That was the Howard Families Lazarus was third or fourth generation Howard Family .

The Howard endowment would secretly encourage and arrange marrages between people whose bloodlines included very long lived grandparents giving hefty financial rewards for keeping the secret and marrying as instructed and producing a lot of children.

That is kind of an old fashioned method , but there is no reason to think it would not work, the same way selective breeding made Dachshunds form Wolves , genetic disposition towards longevity could be selected and produce a human type with longer lifespans.

For a long time Capitalism was actually doing this , there is a lot of advantage in a capitalist society to living long and building wealth and passing on as much heratance of wealth as one can along with ones genes.
This might account (along with better diet and antibiotics) for some of the greater longevity that we see above our forebears a few centuries ago. I don't think this effect is still working , in recent times government has been subsidising poverty such that bearing lots of children whether healthy or not is financially rewarded, this is not neutral towards longevity, because it dilutes the natural effect of evolution. Selection now is for fecundity above longevity.

[Xavier_Onassis]

The government does not arrange marriages. There is nothing stopping the very wealthy to breed selectively. George H W Bush married Barbara Pierce, the daughter of a magazine (McCalls) publisher and a descendent of Pres. Franklin Pierce.

The issue is the breeding of the elite, not the financing of the poor, isn't it? Both George HW and Barbara Bush have exceeded the average American lifespan by now. Were they selectively bred to do so? I cannot say.

[Plane]

The government does not arrange marriages. There is nothing stopping the very wealthy to breed selectively. George H W Bush married Barbara Pierce, the daughter of a magazine (McCalls) publisher and a descendent of Pres. Franklin Pierce.

The issue is the breeding of the elite, not the financing of the poor, isn't it? Both George HW and Barbara Bush have exceeded the average American lifespan by now. Were they selectively bred to do so? I cannot say.

It was not the government doing that , it was the wealth.
And it works at all levels , those better with money and better at surviving , would be better at assisting their proginy to establish themselves. This works for the poor who work to become less poor and the wealthy who are also good parents, poor parenting cancels this effect of course , the selection would not be purely for the wealth caricteristic but for any and all traits that assist reproductive success.
The governments input is greater in our generation than in generations before, the government locks up more people for long periods than ever before , if this interferes with their reproduction it will tend to reinforce law abideing traits via selection.
There are a multitude of factors , but there is a definate direction in the sum of vectors.

Docility.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Locking up men has not caused the birth rate among Blacks to be less than that of Whites,  are less likely to be locked up. The birth rate among Blacks is notably higher, regardless of the incarcerations.

If it were the women who were locked up. that would be different, perhaps.

Note that a productive chicken coop only requires one rooster.

The innovations mentioned here will surely allow people to live longer,but there could be unforeseen repercussions.

[Plane]

Locking up men has not caused the birth rate among Blacks to be less than that of Whites,  are less likely to be locked up. The birth rate among Blacks is notably higher, regardless of the incarcerations.

If it were the women who were locked up. that would be different, perhaps.

Note that a productive chicken coop only requires one rooster.

The innovations mentioned here will surely allow people to live longer,but there could be unforeseen repercussions.

Unforseen we can't discuss , what we can forsee is what we are going to discuss, I forsee very old uppercrust dealing with resentfull youth.


I didn't say  black, I said "Docile".
If you removed all the most agressive gamecocks , how many generations would it take to get docility?

Belyaev Experiment: Docile Foxes

With red fox it takes ten generations to get docility.

How many Human generations have we been selecting against lawbreaking?

Edit 4.16.07: I just learned that Belyaev found out that the "tameness trait" was actually an adrenal response. Within 10 generations of selecting for tameness, foxes had much lower adrenaline levels than their wild counterparts. The neural formation pathway for adrenaline response is linked to a host of other traits, all of which he was now observing after those 10 generations: mottled or white fur color (melonin), droopy or small ears, shortened muzzles, shorter tails. Adrenaline was only one hormone in a collection of many that ended up being effected.



On today's exotic pet market, it is possible to find a red fox that is not red at all, but white. These are not arctic foxes but red foxes with white fur. Belyaev's findings suggest that these foxes have been bred through at least 10 generations of tameness selection. However, this does not mean that these foxes are tame on the same level that dogs are. Foxes make rambunctious pets which can be difficult to handle once they reach maturity. They tend to mark food sites and posessions with malodourous urine and they have a predisposition to dig and chew furniture. (Such foxes are different from the one you see in this video, which has had its genetics gone through at least 30 generations of tameness selection)

http://www.youtube.com/   watch?v=mzTcmE-pMLU#]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzTcmE-pMLU#Belyaev Experiment: Docile Foxes

[Xavier_Onassis]

How many Human generations have we been selecting against lawbreaking?
===========================================================
I don't think anyone has EVER done this deliberately. One result of WWII was that most of the aggressive males in all of the various armies (Nazi,Italian, Partisan,Russian, etc.) were killed off, so people born after that date were probably less aggressive.The crime rate in Western Europe is certainly lower than that of the US. This may be the reason.

There is NO WAY anyone could control the breeding of humans for ten generations.

The Russians simply bred the most docile foxes and castrated and/or killed the aggressive ones for their pelts. No one could do that with people.

The more we understand about DNA, the fewer generations might be required.

[kimba1]

actually i don`t credit our longer life to genetics. but to nutrition.abundance of food increases resistance to illness. note how much taller the next generation to the last. I`m betting north korean has a shorter lifespan than thier southern cousins. genetics is a factor but not a primary. greater amount of food to a ponit is the key.

[Plane]

We are doing this with people .

Not deliberately, it is an unintended consequence, but it could be an important consequence for all that it is unplanned.

You mention the lost of WWII in Europe. The strong and healthy were sacrificed in greater purportion , the well educated in certain aeas were selected against and freethinking sorts in certain areas were selected against.

But a generation was lost much the same in WWI and in the Napolionic wars and in the massive wars of succession that preceded.

Are wars an evolutionary pressure?
If they are , what is the rewarded set of traits?

[Plane]

actually i don`t credit our longer life to genetics. but to nutrition.abundance of food increases resistance to illness. note how much taller the next generation to the last. I`m betting north korean has a shorter lifespan than thier southern cousins. genetics is a factor but not a primary. greater amount of food to a ponit is the key.

I am certain you are right , and another strong factor is the better hygene we have since the invention of the septictank .

But you can discuss anything in terms of its evolutionary effect.

If food is scarce there is selection in favor of the ability to withstand famine.
When food is plentyfull there is selection in favor of the ability to metabolise colestorol and resist diabetus.

When hygene is poor there is evolutionary pressure selecting in favor of strong immune systems.
When hygene is excellent there is selection favoring resistance to autoimmune disorders.

[kimba1]

P.S. I doubts it`ll be the same young bodies. mean some potential tweaking maybe involved. more durable form with SUPERFIACIAL changes. cosmetics surguries will be gone with this technology. maybe used for the poorer populance only. cost will be like the MRI never cheap.. it`l work better but body swapping will be just too costly. synthetic organ transplant maybe affordable,but not the complete overhaul.

[Xavier_Onassis]

The cost of specific procedures depends on technology,and technology often involved major innovation and robotics, so I doubt we can predict what procedures might eventually cost.