The Republicans to the Rescue, Again

[BSB]

Who said it was just symbolic? You just pulled that out of your non-take ass.

BSB

[BT]

Who said it was just symbolic? You just pulled that out of your non-take ass.

BSB

If a treaty does not affect US domestic law and does not cost us a dime to implement what value does it have other than symbolic.

Put another way, how does this treaty affect the disabled in a poor country like Haiti. Who pays for the structural adjustments necessary to accommodate the disabled. What mechanisms are in place to force compliance? Would we sanction Haiti if they failed to put handicap stalls in government buildings?

[BSB]

Is this bullshit, is that what you're saying?


>>What the treaty does, Kerry said at the July committee vote, "is provide a critical tool as we work to ensure that American citizens, including our men and women in uniform and our disabled veterans, are free to travel, work and live abroad."<<

http://www.skweezer.com/s.aspx?q=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/un-disability-treaty-_n_2197794.html

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I don't see much of an effort on your part to get to the bottom of this.

BSB

[Plane]

http://www.un.org/disabilities/

http://www.un.org/disabilities/default.asp?id=17

the Convention on the Rights of Persons With Disabilities

http://www.un.org/disabilities/convention/conventionfull.shtml

It is kinda long.

[Plane]

Is this bullshit, is that what you're saying?


>>What the treaty does, Kerry said at the July committee vote, "is provide a critical tool as we work to ensure that American citizens, including our men and women in uniform and our disabled veterans, are free to travel, work and live abroad."<<

http://www.skweezer.com/s.aspx?q=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/un-disability-treaty-_n_2197794.html

--------------------------

I don't see much of an effort on your part to get to the bottom of this.

BSB

John Kerry does not inspire lots of trust.

[BSB]

Well, lot more then you.


BSB

[Plane]

http://www.un.org/disabilities/convention/conventionfull.shtml

It is kinda long.

OK , I have read it.

It is repetitive and detailed beyond any need for a non binding document.

If it isn't binding , why is it necessary to hire a multilingual lawyer to understand it?

I liked this bit.

Article 12 - Equal recognition before the law

1. States Parties reaffirm that persons with disabilities have the right to recognition everywhere as persons before the law.

2. States Parties shall recognize that persons with disabilities enjoy legal capacity on an equal basis with others in all aspects of life.

3. States Parties shall take appropriate measures to provide access by persons with disabilities to the support they may require in exercising their legal capacity.

4. States Parties shall ensure that all measures that relate to the exercise of legal capacity provide for appropriate and effective safeguards to prevent abuse in accordance with international human rights law. Such safeguards shall ensure that measures relating to the exercise of legal capacity respect the rights, will and preferences of the person, are free of conflict of interest and undue influence, are proportional and tailored to the person’s circumstances, apply for the shortest time possible and are subject to regular review by a competent, independent and impartial authority or judicial body. The safeguards shall be proportional to the degree to which such measures affect the person’s rights and interests.

5. Subject to the provisions of this article, States Parties shall take all appropriate and effective measures to ensure the equal right of persons with disabilities to own or inherit property, to control their own financial affairs and to have equal access to bank loans, mortgages and other forms of financial credit, and shall ensure that persons with disabilities are not arbitrarily deprived of their property.

I would highly favor this document being pared down to this one article ,and then approved as a Binding lawfull treaty.

Otherwise , I only offer lukewarm praise , this document includes several clauses I like , and dozens of phrases that are just confusing or serve no real purpose, and as a non-binding document , it need not include any complexity at all.

Why not push through a highly simplyfied version , and get the public behind it?

[BT]

So if i read Planes excerpts correctly, i have the right to walk into a Haitian Courtroom and so if i feel i was discriminated against due to my disability. At whose expense. With what likely hood as a foreigner of winning?

The ramp doesn't get built but i get to hire a Haitian Barrister? WTF.

[Plane]

That was one of the bits I liked!

If it actually got Hati or any other nation to provide equal protection under the law and reasonably good access to the organs of the law and prevented loss of rights on the basis of disability , that looks like a good idea to me.

But why is something like this both complex and non binding?

It is like locking the common man out of the process and out of the accomplishment, while ensuring that there will be little process and no real accomplishment.

Good law is understandable to those who must obey it .

[BSB]

Lets see, John McCain and Bob Dole, two highly recognized Republicans, two REAL disabled veterans, one a current legislator, the other a former legislator, vs. Plane, BT, and the black helicopter crowd? Gee, I wonder who might have a better handle on this?  I'll have to think this over.


BSB

[Plane]

Although I like McCain , Dole and Santorum, and I respect the accomplishment and service of McCain and Dole, I do not feel obliged to agree with them.

After the struggle of reading that thing , I feel empowered to have a real opinion of my own, and 90% of this opinion is that the document is too long and too complex and too recursive .

10% it has some features that I like.

It is not going to serve as inspiration untill it is reduced to understandable language , so why not just write it that way in the first place?

[BSB]

After you've read it? You, a layman, a civil servant, you have decided its value after looking it over once.

Boy, you really think you're the cats ass don't you. That's why I never liked you Plane from the moment I read one of your posts over 12 years ago. You have an ego the size of Texas with nothing to back it up.

BSB

[sirs]

oy        says the the fella who thinks he's so much smarter than everyone else, with even less than nothing to back anything up  It is, because you say it is, end of story.  That'd be referred to as a Russia sized ego,.   

[BT]

I still haven't seen a thing that makes it worth the time for the US Senate to ratify this treaty.

Sure, i have seen BSB's appeals to emotion and authority and the wonder of feel good legislation, but i don't see where this treaty benefits the disabled more than it does the government functionaries who would adjudicate any appeals.

[BSB]

Plane, sorry about that. Sometimes I loose my temper. Not very often though.

As for you BT, you always were a stubborn bastard.


BSB