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Robots and Robber Barons
« on: December 10, 2012, 10:27:51 AM »
Robots and Robber Barons
By PAUL KRUGMAN

Published: December 9, 2012

The American economy is still, by most measures, deeply depressed. But corporate profits are at a record high. How is that possible? It’s simple: profits have surged as a share of national income, while wages and other labor compensation are down. The pie isn’t growing the way it should — but capital is doing fine by grabbing an ever-larger slice, at labor’s expense.

Wait — are we really back to talking about capital versus labor? Isn’t that an old-fashioned, almost Marxist sort of discussion, out of date in our modern information economy? Well, that’s what many people thought; for the past generation discussions of inequality have focused overwhelmingly not on capital versus labor but on distributional issues between workers, either on the gap between more- and less-educated workers or on the soaring incomes of a handful of superstars in finance and other fields. But that may be yesterday’s story.

More specifically, while it’s true that the finance guys are still making out like bandits — in part because, as we now know, some of them actually are bandits — the wage gap between workers with a college education and those without, which grew a lot in the 1980s and early 1990s, hasn’t changed much since then. Indeed, recent college graduates had stagnant incomes even before the financial crisis struck. Increasingly, profits have been rising at the expense of workers in general, including workers with the skills that were supposed to lead to success in today’s economy.

Why is this happening? As best as I can tell, there are two plausible explanations, both of which could be true to some extent. One is that technology has taken a turn that places labor at a disadvantage; the other is that we’re looking at the effects of a sharp increase in monopoly power. Think of these two stories as emphasizing robots on one side, robber barons on the other.

About the robots: there’s no question that in some high-profile industries, technology is displacing workers of all, or almost all, kinds. For example, one of the reasons some high-technology manufacturing has lately been moving back to the United States is that these days the most valuable piece of a computer, the motherboard, is basically made by robots, so cheap Asian labor is no longer a reason to produce them abroad.

In a recent book, “Race Against the Machine,” M.I.T.’s Erik Brynjolfsson and Andrew McAfee argue that similar stories are playing out in many fields, including services like translation and legal research. What’s striking about their examples is that many of the jobs being displaced are high-skill and high-wage; the downside of technology isn’t limited to menial workers.

Still, can innovation and progress really hurt large numbers of workers, maybe even workers in general? I often encounter assertions that this can’t happen. But the truth is that it can, and serious economists have been aware of this possibility for almost two centuries. The early-19th-century economist David Ricardo is best known for the theory of comparative advantage, which makes the case for free trade; but the same 1817 book in which he presented that theory also included a chapter on how the new, capital-intensive technologies of the Industrial Revolution could actually make workers worse off, at least for a while — which modern scholarship suggests may indeed have happened for several decades.

What about robber barons? We don’t talk much about monopoly power these days; antitrust enforcement largely collapsed during the Reagan years and has never really recovered. Yet Barry Lynn and Phillip Longman of the New America Foundation argue, persuasively in my view, that increasing business concentration could be an important factor in stagnating demand for labor, as corporations use their growing monopoly power to raise prices without passing the gains on to their employees.

I don’t know how much of the devaluation of labor either technology or monopoly explains, in part because there has been so little discussion of what’s going on. I think it’s fair to say that the shift of income from labor to capital has not yet made it into our national discourse.

Yet that shift is happening — and it has major implications. For example, there is a big, lavishly financed push to reduce corporate tax rates; is this really what we want to be doing at a time when profits are surging at workers’ expense? Or what about the push to reduce or eliminate inheritance taxes; if we’re moving back to a world in which financial capital, not skill or education, determines income, do we really want to make it even easier to inherit wealth?

As I said, this is a discussion that has barely begun — but it’s time to get started, before the robots and the robber barons turn our society into something unrecognizable.

http://www.skweezer.com/s.aspx?q=http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/10/opinion/krugman-robots-and-robber-barons.html

Plane

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Re: Robots and Robber Barons
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2012, 12:40:13 PM »
I just read this a few days ago.
Do we feed our winners?


http://machinedesign.com/article/why-finance-majors-make-more-than-engineers-1020

Why finance majors make more than engineers


October 20, 2011

Leland E. Teschler

  Back in the 1970s and early 1980s, kids coming out of college didn’t lust after jobs in finance. The reason was simple: Finance jobs didn’t pay as well as those in other professions. That may be hard to imagine now, with some first-year financial analysts pulling down six-figure salaries and potentially six-figure bonuses, while newly minted engineers can only expect to earn around $70,000.
 
If you are wondering why things changed, you aren’t alone. Two economists at the National Bureau of Economic Research mused about the same thing. Controlling for education and other related qualities, they found that wages in finance in 2006 were about 40% higher than those in the rest of the private sector. For CEOs, the difference is even greater. Between 1995 and 2005, executive compensation in finance outstripped that of the private sector by 150% on average. The NBER economists decided to figure out why.
 
The two didn’t pursue this idea out of idle curiosity. Finance accounts for 15 to 25% of the overall increase in wage inequality since 1980, they say. To put it another way, lopsided compensation in the financial industry has greatly contributed to the disappearance of the middle class and the polarization of the U. S. into a country containing mainly people with low and high incomes.
 
The two economists, Thomas Philippon and Ariell Reshef, discovered something odd: There was another time in U. S. history when wages in the financial sector outpaced those elsewhere. That period extended from 1909 to 1933 which, in a spooky echo of today, spanned the roaring twenties, the 1929 stock market collapse, and the initiation of the Great Depression. It also casts doubt on the concept that information technology has been the force driving higher salaries — after all, there were no computers in the 1920s.
 
What the economists did find, however, was that the relative rise of salaries in finance corresponded with progressive deregulation of the industry beginning in the 1980s, probably because deregulation can intensify innovation and competition for talent. Similarly, salaries in finance started to fall during the 1930s, 40s, and 50s, not because of the punk economy or any nostalgic ideas about the rise of manufacturing industries. The more probable explanation, say Philippon and Reshef, is that that period was one of relatively heavy regulation of financial firms and, coincidentally, much higher tax rates on higher incomes.
 
Well, thank goodness for that. Otherwise, many entrepreneurially minded self-starters of the time such as Bill Hewlett, David Packard, or Bill Lear might have wound up inventing cockamamie debt instruments instead of founding manufacturing industries.
 
The economists beg off from opining about whether society is better or worse off when “financiers are overpaid from a social point of view.” But I contend that the real lesson learned from their results lies elsewhere: If society wants more engineers and scientists, it should forget about beseeching kids to pursue technical subjects and hoping they ignore the fact that such studies lead to lower-paying careers. Instead, just regulate the financial industry so it produces fewer “innovations” such as the credit default swaps that nearly sank economies worldwide two years ago.
 


kimba1

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Re: Robots and Robber Barons
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2012, 01:20:16 PM »
Hmm
Computers can cost as low as $250 nowadays. So if technology can be made to lower peoples cost of living down instead of up. Then lower labor wages may not be an issue

Plane

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Re: Robots and Robber Barons
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2012, 01:28:53 PM »
Hmm
Computers can cost as low as $250 nowadays. So if technology can be made to lower peoples cost of living down instead of up. Then lower labor wages may not be an issue

We are not really in troubble untill the robots start designing themselves.

But , that is coming.

kimba1

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Re: Robots and Robber Barons
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2012, 04:21:31 PM »
Uhm
Don't we have computer's making basic programs today?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Robots and Robber Barons
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2012, 04:43:01 PM »
A program writing a program is not quite the same as a robot creating another robot.

There was an episode of Star Trek: TNG in which Data builds a robot daughter, Lal that sort of addressesandroidsand reproduction.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

kimba1

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Re: Robots and Robber Barons
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2012, 04:54:47 PM »
Figured it's step in that direction. But the plus side is it'll take a very long time before robots can be made without human assistance. The real question is which robot will be aware first?

Fembot or battlebot. Lets be honest both are the only designs being funded today.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Robots and Robber Barons
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2012, 07:24:18 PM »
Robots will do only what humans program them to do. The idea that robots will rebel and start creating a robo army to overthrow humans is certainly something we can prevent.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

kimba1

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Re: Robots and Robber Barons
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2012, 08:54:23 PM »
I think the day machines don't breakdown is the day we need to worry.