Author Topic: Japaneese -Chineese aircraft  (Read 1381 times)

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Plane

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Japaneese -Chineese aircraft
« on: December 29, 2012, 09:54:13 AM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/27/china-japan-islands-idUSL4N0A12NH20121227

I really hope this can be settled without a war.

The Japaneese F-15 is capable enough to win air battle even though outnumbered.
But the Chineese can outnumber the Japaneese permanantly.

So, if it comes to war , it could be a miserable one.

Plane

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Japaneese -Chineese aircraft
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 03:12:59 PM »
There won't be a war over those insignificant islands. There might be some nasty demonstrations and boycotts.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Japaneese -Chineese aircraft
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2012, 11:22:46 PM »
Do you think that blood will not be spilled for oil?

Nor for food?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Japaneese -Chineese aircraft
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 02:20:31 AM »
There is no food on the Spratley Islands to fight over. There are no proven oil reserves, either. Somewhere, people will fight for oil or food, but China and Japan will not fight any sort of shooting war over these islands.

China and Japan will not fight a war over this. China has a better claim to Taiwan,and they have not done anything to take it over. They allow Taiwan to invest in China, and allow their citizens to invest in Taiwan. China is very pragmatic,and war is very bad for business.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Japaneese -Chineese aircraft
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 01:02:25 PM »
Whoever owns the Spratly Islands has special rights to the fishing near them.

This is a huge fishing area not far from home.


Plane

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Re: Japaneese -Chineese aircraft
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 01:06:31 PM »
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pg.html
Quote
The Spratly Islands consist of more than 100 small islands or reefs. They are surrounded by rich fishing grounds and potentially by gas and oil deposits. They are claimed in their entirety by China, Taiwan, and Vietnam, while portions are claimed by Malaysia and the Philippines. About 45 islands are occupied by relatively small numbers of military forces from China, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan, and Vietnam. Since 1985 Brunei has claimed a continental shelf that overlaps a southern reef but has not made any formal claim to the reef. Brunei claims an exclusive economic zone over this area.


Location:
Southeastern Asia, group of reefs and islands in the South China Sea, about two-thirds of the way from southern Vietnam to the southern Philippines
 

Geographic coordinates:
8 38 N, 111 55 E

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Japaneese -Chineese aircraft
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 01:28:19 PM »
So at most, some naval vessel threatens a fishing boat. Iceland and the UK have had similar confrontations for ages. Neither China nor Japan is going to declare war over fish.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Japaneese -Chineese aircraft
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 08:08:23 PM »
So at most, some naval vessel threatens a fishing boat. Iceland and the UK have had similar confrontations for ages. Neither China nor Japan is going to declare war over fish.

I would like for you to be right , but fishing crews have already been arrested/kidnapped, depending on your point of view.

Between oil feilds or tons of food there is a lot of motive, then again there is strategic position.

So lets hope you are right and that these two energy and food hungry nations can ignore a few million miles of rescorces and territory.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Japaneese -Chineese aircraft
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2012, 10:58:28 AM »
Japan is certainly not starving for more fish. Neither is China.

Note that Taiwan, which is far more valuable then the Spratly Islands, has not occasioned a war in over 60 years. China has a pretty good historical claim to Taiwan. The islands of Quemoy and Matsu are right off the Chinese coast, and have not been taken over by the Chinese, who could certainly do this with minimal effort.

China craves prosperity above all else. A war with Japan would cost them far more than any benefit they could get from taking over those islands. There would be sanctions, disruptions in investments, diversion of resources. Neither Japan nor China wants a war.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Japaneese -Chineese aircraft
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2012, 12:56:23 PM »
Putting Amphibious Assault and minimal effort together is kind of strange.

It is one of the toughest military maneouvers to accomplish.

And it requires controll of both the sea and air in the area.

It is so hard to do that China has never yet felt strong enough to do what they have plainly said that they wanted to do.

Chineese strengh is improving, the US is about to sequester the military with an austerity program.

We refuse to sell certain aircraft to Taiwan , Japan has a constitutional austerity of armed forces.

At some point China will feel that the balance is tipped, then action will be at their choice.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Japaneese -Chineese aircraft
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2012, 01:26:10 PM »
Even if there is no intervention by the US, a Chinese invasion of even Quemoy or Matsu would cause serious economic disruption in the Chinese stock market, people thrown out of work and other problems. The rulers of China know that as long as they can maintain a healthy growth rate, public dissent will not cause them serious problems. Any military action would impair that growth rate.

China plans to peacefully integrate Taiwan in the same way it has been dealing with Macau and Hong Kong. One of the two major parties of Taiwan. the Kuomintang, also maintains that Taiwan is a part of China. The US officially also recognizes Taiwan to be a part of China and not an independent country.

China and Taiwan just disagree on the terms. Taiwan is quite similar in many ways to the prosperous coastal part of the PRC. Everyone speaks Mandarin (not the case even in Macau or Hong Kong), and the government acknowledges the influence of Confucius, who is increasingly becoming philosophically more of a national mentor hero than Mao.

Taiwan has a GDP of over five times that of mainland China. The Taiwanese do not want to be flooded by Chinese immigrants, nor do they want their standard of living to decline. The PRC does not want this, either. Immigration from mainland China to both Macau and Hong Kong is seriously restricted.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Japaneese -Chineese aircraft
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2012, 08:55:31 PM »
Would it be simpler to integrate Taiwan , were China a multi-party government?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Japaneese -Chineese aircraft
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2013, 10:46:10 AM »
Of course, but it would take more than that.

Hong Kong has a separate government that is more democratic than the national PRC government. Still, in a nation of over a billion, one vote would count for very, very little, even if there were a multiparty democracy.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Japaneese -Chineese aircraft
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2013, 12:24:54 PM »
I can't tell what will happen , but a lot of Taiwaneese who also can't tell what is going to happen , have bought houses in Canada.

If Taiwan is assimilated , I imagine they will want a deal in which they have an influence in the central government elese some autonomy.

The central government ought to give autonomy to some degree, it would be smarter to use their economy as it is .