"Great Iraqi Victory" a massacre + a cover-up?

[Michael Tee]

Humour me, sirs.  Scroll up and show me exactly where I accused you of lying about the rightness of my opinion, since "everyone else" apparently can do it.  I actually think I know what you are talking about, but I hope I'm wrong, because if I'm not, it will actually be painful for me to have to point out how fucking stupid you really are. 

so - - same old challenge, which you've already ducked once: put up or shut up.  Show me where I accused you of lying about the rightness of my opinion.

[Plane]

Humour me, sirs.  Scroll up and show me exactly where I accused you of lying about the rightness of my opinion, since "everyone else" apparently can do it.  I actually think I know what you are talking about, but I hope I'm wrong, because if I'm not, it will actually be painful for me to have to point out how fucking stupid you really are. 

so - - same old challenge, which you've already ducked once: put up or shut up.  Show me where I accused you of lying about the rightness of my opinion.

Everyone thinks themselves right , debate is all about this.

[sirs]

Humour me, sirs.  Scroll up and show me exactly where I accused you of lying about the rightness of my opinion, since "everyone else" apparently can do it.  I actually think I know what you are talking about, but I hope I'm wrong, because if I'm not, it will actually be painful for me to have to point out how fucking stupid you really are. 

so - - same old challenge, which you've already ducked once: put up or shut up.  Show me where I accused you of lying about the rightness of my opinion.

You're funny, I'll give you that.  Quick synopsis for those who haven't already scrolled up. 

Sirs; Tee frequently implies X, when not overtly claiming X

Tee;  You lying Right Wing Fascist bastard, show me where I ever said X, or shut the f@*# up

Sirs; (Quote from Tee) "X"

Tee; Same old same old, Sirs ducking yet another challenge


Priceless.  This, by the way, was largely the whole debate between Tee and everyone else, regarding Bush's supposed lying us into war.  However in that tact, X= some supposed fact as deduced by Tee, while folks like myself, Plane, Ami, Bt, and company routinely demonstrated the fallacy of X, using those dreaded facts and/or logic and/or reasoning to the contrary, with Tee's standard comeback yet again claiming some overt failing to supposedly debunk his X      

[sirs]

Lanya what was the point of your post?

That Iran is not supplying enhanced IED's?
They are, but we don't know what percentage?
They are, but so what?
or DOD should have those figures at the tip of their tongue?

Lanya must have missed this, the 1st go around

[Michael Tee]

Looks like some things will never change.  Sirs, faced with a challenge ("Show me where I accused you of lying about the rightness of my opinion." ducks the challenge once, told to put up or shut up, answers the second challenge with a post filled with what I will charitably refer to as incomprehensible gibberish - - when a simple cut-and-paste, followed by the single word, "There!" would have sufficed.

Third repeat of the same challenge, sirs:  SHOW ME where I accused you of lying about the rightness of my opinion.  Point to the post.  You say "everyone can scroll up to it."  OK, so scroll up to it.

No more bullshit, OK sirs?  Just show me where I accused you of lying about the rightness of my opinion.  It's easy, (you claim) just scroll up, cut and paste.

We're waiting, sirs.

[Michael Tee]

<<However in that tact [whether Bush lied America into war] X= some supposed fact as deduced by Tee, while folks like myself, Plane, Ami, Bt, and company routinely demonstrated the fallacy of X, using those dreaded facts and/or logic and/or reasoning to the contrary, with Tee's standard comeback yet again claiming some overt failing to supposedly debunk his X  >>

YAAAAWWNN, another misrepresentation of what occurred by serial misrepresenter sirs.  What actually happened was that sirs refers to the "Bush lied" statements as either (a) without any evidence whatsoever or (b) already "debunked" many times by the brilliance of his own or other's like-minded brilliance.

When the argument is (a), that the allegations of Bush lying are without evidence, I produce ALL of the evidence I am aware of (which I've done on too many occasions already) and then show the reasoning that connects the dots and makes the "Bush lied" theory (IMHO) the likeliest explanation of the actual events.  When the argument is (b), that the "Bush lied" theory has already been debunked, I usually issue a simple denial.  It's NEVER been debunked, although of course many Bush supporters have tried to argue against it.  But I feel this is - - or should be - -  a club where IDEAS are debated - - not a club where the results of past debates are debated.

[Amianthus]

When the argument is (a), that the allegations of Bush lying are without evidence, I produce ALL of the evidence I am aware of ... and then show the reasoning that connects the dots and makes the "Bush lied" theory (IMHO) the likeliest explanation of the actual events.

But not the ONLY explanation of the actual events. And therefore, it's not evidence. So, "Bush lied" is your opinion, and not an actual fact, as you even claim here*.


* IMHO - in my humble opinion

[Michael Tee]

<<But not the ONLY explanation of the actual events. >>

Of course not.  And I never said it was. 

<<And therefore, it's not evidence. >>

Huh???  OF COURSE, it's evidence.  It's not conclusive evidence, granted.  But it's still evidence.

<<So, "Bush lied" is your opinion, and not an actual fact, as you even claim here*.>>

Of course it's my opinion, I'm not his fucking psychiatrist, how the hell would I or anyone else know what really went on inside his head?  IMO, based on the available evidence, the LIKELIEST conclusion is that Bush knowingly lied.  If he really were incredibly stupid or self-delusional, he could have been simply in error.  Given the pre-911 plans laid to attack a major Middle Eastern oil producer and gain control over the resources, and given the total absurdity of the idea that Iraq directly or through completely volatile and crazy non-governmental third parties (who would then have life-and-death power over him) would attack the U.S.A., it's overwhelmingly probable that Bush consciously had to be lying about the "threat" from Iraq immediately prior to the invasion.

[Amianthus]

Of course it's my opinion, I'm not his fucking psychiatrist, how the hell would I or anyone else know what really went on inside his head?

Since it's an opinion, it cannot therefore be claimed to be established fact.

[Michael Tee]

<<Since it's an opinion, it cannot therefore be claimed to be established fact.>>

Well, we're getting into semantics here.  It's beginning to sound like the "Evolution is only a theory" issue. 

It's my OPINION that the sun will rise tomorrow.  Barring some unforeseen cosmic calamity it will.  I have no reason to expect it won't.

It's my opinion, not as strongly held as my belief in the sun's rising tomorrow, based on the available evidence, that Bush lied.  I'm more certain of that than I am that, say, Roosevelt KNEW in advance of Pearl Harbor (I don't think he did), but I believe that other theories (sincere mistake, for example) are much less likely.

[Amianthus]

Well, we're getting into semantics here.  It's beginning to sound like the "Evolution is only a theory" issue. 

Not really. Evolution is a "scientific theory". What you (and anti-evolutionints) are calling "theory" is known in science as "hypothesis."

It's my OPINION that the sun will rise tomorrow.  Barring some unforeseen cosmic calamity it will.  I have no reason to expect it won't.

No, there is also quite a bit of scientific evidence and several laws of physics that support your "opinion" and no evidence to contradict it - therefore it is no longer an "opinion."

It's my opinion, not as strongly held as my belief in the sun's rising tomorrow, based on the available evidence, that Bush lied.  I'm more certain of that than I am that, say, Roosevelt KNEW in advance of Pearl Harbor (I don't think he did), but I believe that other theories (sincere mistake, for example) are much less likely.

As I said, your "opinion" in this case is no more than a "hypothesis" since there is actually evidence to counter your opinion. Had there not been any evidence to contradict your opinion, it would carry more weight and could be considered a "theory."

[sirs]

SHOW ME where I accused you of lying about the rightness of my opinion.  Point to the post.  You say "everyone can scroll up to it."  OK, so scroll up to it.  No more bullshit, OK sirs?  Just show me where I accused you of lying about the rightness of my opinion.  It's easy, (you claim) just scroll up, cut and paste.  We're waiting, sirs.

No, only you're waiting Tee.  Apparently you don't give anyone else here any consideration for their intelligence.  Everyone else, besides you apparently, have been able to scroll up and see precisely what you were complaining about, and how I precisely provided you your unfortunate answer, with Tee's best quote to date "Generally speaking, the way it works is, he's wrong if he's on the wrong side of MY opinion"

Everyone else (of the rational mind set) can also deduce how your overt opinions of Bush are merely opinions, grounded in very little prescious fact, with the most egregious being how Bush supposedly lied us into war.  All your so called "evidence" is largely innuendo, with many of your so called "facts", a molehill of selected facts, with your SOP of ignoring the mountain of evidence and facts to the contrary

Now, you're perfectly entitled to ignore all the facts and evidence that consistently & routinely debunk your nonsense about Bush lied us into war.  We wouldn't want them getting in the way of a perfectly good predispised mindset of how evil Bush and its military are.  We infact enjoy when you entertain us with these grand "my-opinion-is-fact/you-are-all-wrong" proclaimations.  And when you do attempt to inject (ir)rationalized opinions explainining how all those committee and investigative conclusions declraing no cover-up, declaring no attempt to manipulate the intel, is just a big massive cover-up to protect Bush and those dumb politicians duped by the nefarious BushCo (wait, I thought he's supposed to be a moron), note how those claims have even less evidence to support them....just Tee's famous insight and "common sense" as to how things must be, because........it just has to be, Bush is evil, Bush is a moronic version of Hitler.  Everything then must, by design, feed that template

Please keep up with the good work.       

[Michael Tee]

<<No, only you're waiting Tee.  Apparently you don't give anyone else here any consideration for their intelligence.  Everyone else, besides you apparently, have been able to scroll up and see precisely what you were complaining about, and how I precisely provided you your unfortunate answer, with Tee's best quote to date "Generally speaking, the way it works is, he's wrong if he's on the wrong side of MY opinion">>

Thank you for taking the challenge, sirs.  Actually, I KNEW that was the quote you were going to scroll up to, the one you are so proud of demolishing.   Only there's a little problem here, sirs:  That was obviously a joke, you moron, between BT and I, and everyone else got it but you.

As for the rest of your overly repetitious rant, the basic Bush-didnt'-lie BS, I've heard it too many times and demolished it too many times; the evidence that he lied is right there for you to accept or ignore and if you choose to ignore it, I can't help that one bit.  I choose to accept it.  I - - and most other people endowed with minimal common sense - - will conclude, albeit with something less than 100% certainty, that by far the likeliest conclusion to be drawn from it is, that Bush lied.

[sirs]

<<No, only you're waiting Tee.  Apparently you don't give anyone else here any consideration for their intelligence.  Everyone else, besides you apparently, have been able to scroll up and see precisely what you were complaining about, and how I precisely provided you your unfortunate answer, with Tee's best quote to date "Generally speaking, the way it works is, he's wrong if he's on the wrong side of MY opinion">>

Thank you for taking the challenge, sirs. 

You're welcome.  Glad to have been of service.  Perhaps now we can move on to more substantive debate, or <<surpise>> maybe, just maybe you'll actually be able to substantiate some of your other diatribes vs the standard accusatory innuedo and "Tee-leave logic", since your Bush lied us into war garbage has pretty much run its course of distortion and lying itself

[Michael Tee]

<<You're welcome.  Glad to have been of service.  Perhaps now we can move on to more substantive debate . . . >>

Good idea.

<< or <<surpise>> maybe, just maybe you'll actually be able to substantiate some of your other diatribes vs the standard accusatory innuedo . . . >>

LOL.  I don't think I leave too much to innuendo, sirs.  What I say, I usually back up with fact and logic.  Unless you have a specific example of some position I took which I did not back up with fact and logic, I think you'd best leave this topic alone.  Another "put up or shut up" situation, I'm afraid.  I'm not going to defend myself against such broad, non-specific accusations.  It's McCarthyism at its worst.

<< . . . and "Tee-leave logic" . . . >>

I'm afraid you're speaking a language all your own at this point, sirs.  Probably an inevitable consequence of your inability to face up to the real world.

 <<since your Bush lied us into war garbage has pretty much run its course of distortion and lying itself>>

And speaking of your inability to face the real world, might as well recognize that Bush in all likelihood DID lie you into a war, as I've demonstrated with fact and logic on numerous occasions, so calling it "garbage" is not going to make the unpalatable truth go away.  The facts are there, as I said, to be interpreted my way or your way, but I think by now most people have interpreted them my way, as is only reasonable.  You are still welcome to your opinion, it is after all a free country, but I can't say that it's a very impressive opinion.