Author Topic: And they mock our beliefs!  (Read 1773 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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And they mock our beliefs!
« on: February 10, 2013, 02:16:31 PM »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: And they mock our beliefs!
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2013, 02:39:08 PM »
Atheists that I have known believe very little of this.

If ritual cannibalism and deophagy (aka Holy Communion) turn you on, have at it.

What is really worthy of mocking about YOU is the idea that somehow there is a connection between small government and Jesus.

Politically, Jesus main belief was "Romans, begone", but he was a bit too diplomatic to say it directly.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: And they mock our beliefs!
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2013, 03:35:02 PM »
What is really worthy of mocking about YOU is the idea that somehow there
is a connection between small government and Jesus.

What is really worthy of mocking is the idea that Jesus would somehow
support gvt forcing people to do the "right thing". Jesus was not
about forcing people to do anything. Forced charity is not really
even charity at all. Charity needs to come from the heart not at the point
of a gun or threats of arrest. Also large gvt as we see almost every day in the
news leads to corruption and mis-use.....the opposite of what Jesus taught.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: And they mock our beliefs!
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2013, 03:48:01 PM »
Jesus forced some moneylenders to lose customers, as I recall. Jesus was not any sort of political reformer.

"Give away all you have and follow me" is a sort of political message, but it obviously would not work for the entire population. There is no record of a lot of female or child disciples following Jesus about. Apparently he and the disciples did not graze on local resources all the time: they were supported by people who were not wandering mendicants.

The politics of his time were so different from the present that you might as well talk about his fashion sense or his favorite diet.

No one in history has ever run a government on volunteerism. I suppose that the UAE, Qatar and Kuwait have the least necessarily obtrusive government, since there are no taxes and the small people that are citizens of those countries get all sorts of nifty benefits.

Taxes are necessary if the country itself does not have a lot of resources.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: And they mock our beliefs!
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2013, 10:13:48 PM »
Politically, Jesus main belief was "Romans, begone", but he was a bit too diplomatic to say it directly.
I missed that bit , what indicates it to you?


Quote
Jesus forced some moneylenders to lose customers, as I recall. Jesus was not any sort of political reformer.
That is true
Quote

The politics of his time were so different from the present that you might as well talk about his fashion sense or his favorite diet.

What political development have we come up with since then?

Monarchy, Despotism, Democracy, Republics and Ogliarchys were all old hat already.           

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: And they mock our beliefs!
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2013, 11:07:26 PM »
Not in any modern context.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: And they mock our beliefs!
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2013, 11:53:04 PM »
Not in any modern context.

I am not understanding.

What is the context?

Does having a cell phone mke me a diffrent sort of person than I could have been B.C.?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: And they mock our beliefs!
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2013, 11:55:19 PM »
The economy, every invention, every disease that has been cured all make major differences. The world of Jesus was far more alien to our world that any culture presently on the planet.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: And they mock our beliefs!
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2013, 01:22:12 AM »
The economy, every invention, every disease that has been cured all make major differences. The world of Jesus was far more alien to our world that any culture presently on the planet.

I can't think of why.

We have the rich and the poor.

We have the powerfull and the weak.

We have new diseases that replace the ones we have learned to cure.

The death rate is 100%

What is diffrent that matters?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: And they mock our beliefs!
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2013, 01:24:48 AM »
Just think about it.

Our society is nothing whatever like the society Jesus lived in, just like it is nothing like the society Mohammad lived in.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

kimba1

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Re: And they mock our beliefs!
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2013, 12:19:21 PM »
the basic stuff is the same but the details makes us different. I believe modern medicine affords us the luxury of caring for children alot more. remember teenager concept did not exist until the 20th century. before all those kids are put to work to support the family with a accepted mortality rate.


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: And they mock our beliefs!
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2013, 01:30:50 PM »
Children in the time of Jesus were a boon because from age 8 or so, they were useful as agricultural or some other sort of labor. Only the sons of levis, cohens, and cantors were educated in any serious manner. These were the priests, rabbis, temple attendants, and  singers, and  they were hereditary positions. It was forbidden for these people to marry Jews who were not of their lineage, as it still is in Israel. Most occupations were hereditary. The caste system in Israel exists only because of the need of the religious parties in coalitions in the Knesset. Jewish commoners are called "Israel", and when they marry one of the higher caste people, they generally do it out of the country, with Cyprus being the favorite place.

Blood sacrifice was a BIG DEAL then. In modern times, it is what only cults generally seen as wackos do today. Here in Miami, one sees dismembered chickens and goats strewn about the parking lots at Barry and St Thomas Universities near graduation time and generally it does not even make the newspaper. Kosher regulations applied to all sorts of things, not just food. Jews at the time of Jesus had more traditional obligations and do's and don'ts than fundamentalist Muslims do today.

Gossip was the major source of entertainment. There were no soap operas, films, novels, videogames or TV, of course, and travel away from where one was born was exceedingly rare, and for Jews mostly limited to a visit to Jerusalem.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

kimba1

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Re: And they mock our beliefs!
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2013, 03:28:22 PM »
it was pretty common to have at least eight kids per family for the free labor and ensure some of the kids will survive. I got a friend from pakistan with family of eight kids and hesitantly admitted three didn`t make it. it`s just a numbers game

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: And they mock our beliefs!
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2013, 04:24:36 PM »
People had lots of kids as a way of assuring that someone would take care of them if they lived long enough to be old and feeble.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: And they mock our beliefs!
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2013, 04:43:52 PM »
it was pretty common to have at least eight kids per family for the free labor and ensure some of the kids will survive. I got a friend from pakistan with family of eight kids and hesitantly admitted three didn`t make it. it`s just a numbers game

Kimba....my Dad was born in 1908.
He had three older siblings that either died at birth or shortly after.
My grandmother changed "doctors" when my Dad was born.
They thought they may have been the reason my Dad survived.
Although in 1908 most doctors in little TX country towns never attended medical school.
Remember most people were still riding horses in 1908.
You're right....it was a numbers game.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987