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Lanya

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Brzezinski testimony
« on: February 04, 2007, 12:14:59 AM »
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976901034

SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITEE TESTIMONY -- ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI
by Clarke M.
February 02, 2007 04:01 AM EST


[This is the prepared text of the testimony  offered by former National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski  in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee  on February 1, 2007

Brzezinski was  paired with former National Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft  to  testify about their views on the strategic context of America's actions in Iraq.]

SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITEE TESTIMONY -- ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI
February 1, 2007

Mr. Chairman:

Your hearings come at a critical juncture in the U.S. war of choice in Iraq, and I commend you and Senator Lugar for scheduling them.

It is time for the White House to come to terms with two central realities:

1. The war in Iraq is a historic, strategic, and moral calamity. Undertaken under false assumptions, it is undermining America's global legitimacy. Its collateral civilian casualties as well as some abuses are tarnishing America's moral credentials. Driven by Manichean impulses and imperial hubris, it is intensifying regional instability.

2. Only a political strategy that is historically relevant rather than reminiscent of colonial tutelage can provide the needed framework for a tolerable resolution of both the war in Iraq and the intensifying regional tensions.

If the United States continues to be bogged down in a protracted bloody involvement in Iraq, the final destination on this downhill track is likely to be a head-on conflict with Iran and with much of the world of Islam at large. A plausible scenario for a military collision with Iran involves Iraqi failure to meet the benchmarks; followed by accusations of Iranian responsibility for the failure; then by some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the U.S. blamed on Iran; culminating in a "defensive" U.S. military action against Iran that plunges a lonely America into a spreading and deepening quagmire eventually ranging across Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

A mythical historical narrative to justify the case for such a protracted and potentially expanding war is already being articulated. Initially justified by false claims about WMD's in Iraq, the war is now being redefined as the "decisive ideological struggle" of our time, reminiscent of the earlier collisions with Nazism and Stalinism. In that context, Islamist extremism and al Qaeda are presented as the equivalents of the threat posed by Nazi Germany and then Soviet Russia, and 9/11 as the equivalent of the Pearl Harbor attack which precipitated America's involvement in World War II.

This simplistic and demagogic narrative overlooks the fact that Nazism was based on the military power of the industrially most advanced European state; and that Stalinism was able to mobilize not only the resources of the victorious and militarily powerful Soviet Union but also had worldwide appeal through its Marxist doctrine. In contrast, most Muslims are not embracing Islamic fundamentalism; al Qaeda is an isolated fundamentalist Islamist aberration; most Iraqis are engaged in strife because the American occupation of Iraq destroyed the Iraqi state; while Iran -- though gaining in regional influence -- is itself politically divided, economically and militarily weak. To argue that America is already at war in the region with a wider Islamic threat, of which Iran is the epicenter, is to promote a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Deplorably, the Administration's foreign policy in the Middle East region has lately relied almost entirely on such sloganeering. Vague and inflammatory talk about "a new strategic context" which is based on "clarity" and which prompts "the birth pangs of a new Middle East" is breeding intensifying anti-Americanism and is increasing the danger of a long-term collision between the United States and the Islamic world. Those in charge of U.S. diplomacy have also adopted a posture of moralistic self-ostracism toward Iran strongly reminiscent of John Foster Dulles's attitude of the early 1950's toward Chinese Communist leaders (resulting among other things in the well-known episode of the refused handshake). It took some two decades and a half before another Republican president was finally able to undo that legacy.

One should note here also that practically no country in the world shares the Manichean delusions that the Administration so passionately articulates. The result is growing political isolation of, and pervasive popular antagonism toward the U.S. global posture.

It is obvious by now that the American national interest calls for a significant change of direction. There is in fact a dominant consensus in favor of a change: American public opinion now holds that the war was a mistake; that it should not be escalated, that a regional political process should be explored; and that an Israeli-Palestinian accommodation is an essential element of the needed policy alteration and should be actively pursued. It is noteworthy that profound reservations regarding the Administration's policy have been voiced by a number of leading Republicans. One need only invoke here the expressed views of the much admired President Gerald Ford, former Secretary of State James Baker, former National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft and several leading Republican senators, John Warner, Chuck Hagel, and Gordon Smith among others.

The urgent need today is for a strategy that seeks to create a political framework for a resolution of the problems posed both by the US occupation of Iraq and by the ensuing civil and sectarian conflict. Ending the occupation and shaping a regional security dialogue should be the mutually reinforcing goals of such a strategy, but both goals will take time and require a genuinely serious U.S. commitment.

The quest for a political solution for the growing chaos in Iraq should involve four steps:

1. The United States should reaffirm explicitly and unambiguously its determination to leave Iraq in a reasonably short period of time.

Ambiguity regarding the duration of the occupation in fact encourages unwillingness to compromise and intensifies the on-going civil strife. Moreover, such a public declaration is needed to allay fears in the Middle East of a new and enduring American imperial hegemony. Right or wrong, many view the establishment of such a hegemony as the primary reason for the American intervention in a region only recently free of colonial domination. That perception should be discredited from the highest U.S. level. Perhaps the U.S. Congress could do so by a joint resolution.

2. The United States should announce that it is undertaking talks with the Iraqi leaders to jointly set with them a date by which U.S. military disengagement should be completed, and the resulting setting of such a date should be announced as a joint decision. In the meantime, the U.S. should avoid military escalation.

It is necessary to engage all Iraqi leaders -- including those who do not reside within "the Green Zone" -- in a serious discussion regarding the proposed and jointly defined date for U.S. military disengagement because the very dialogue itself will help identify the authentic Iraqi leaders with the self-confidence and capacity to stand on their own legs without U.S. military protection. Only Iraqi leaders who can exercise real power beyond "the Green Zone" can eventually reach a genuine Iraqi accommodation. The painful reality is that much of the current Iraqi regime, characterized by the Bush administration as "representative of the Iraqi people," defines itself largely by its physical location: the 4 sq. miles-large U.S. fortress within Baghdad, protected by a wall in places 15 feet thick, manned by heavily armed U.S. military, popularly known as "the Green Zone."

3. The United States should issue jointly with appropriate Iraqi leaders, or perhaps let the Iraqi leaders issue, an invitation to all neighbors of Iraq (and perhaps some other Muslim countries such as Egypt, Morocco, Algeria, and Pakistan) to engage in a dialogue regarding how best to enhance stability in Iraq in conjunction with U.S. military disengagement and to participate eventually in a conference regarding regional stability.

The United States and the Iraqi leadership need to engage Iraq's neighbors in serious discussion regarding the region's security problems, but such discussions cannot be undertaken while the U.S. is perceived as an occupier for an indefinite duration. Iran and Syria have no reason to help the United States consolidate a permanent regional hegemony. It is ironic, however, that both Iran and Syria have lately called for a regional dialogue, exploiting thereby the self-defeating character of the largely passive -- and mainly sloganeering -- U.S. diplomacy.

A serious regional dialogue, promoted directly or indirectly by the U.S., could be buttressed at some point by a wider circle of consultations involving other powers with a stake in the region's stability, such as the EU, China, Japan, India, and Russia. Members of this Committee might consider exploring informally with the states mentioned their potential interest in such a wider dialogue.

4. Concurrently, the United States should activate a credible and energetic effort to finally reach an Israeli-Palestinian peace, making it clear in the process as to what the basic parameters of such a final accommodation ought to involve.

The United States needs to convince the region that the U.S. is committed both to Israel's enduring security and to fairness for the Palestinians who have waited for more than forty years now for their own separate state. Only an external and activist intervention can promote the long-delayed settlement for the record shows that the Israelis and the Palestinians will never do so on their own. Without such a settlement, both nationalist and fundamentalist passions in the region will in the longer run doom any Arab regime which is perceived as supportive of U.S. regional hegemony.

After World War II, the United States prevailed in the defense of democracy in Europe because it successfully pursued a long-term political strategy of uniting its friends and dividing its enemies, of soberly deterring aggression without initiating hostilities, all the while also exploring the possibility of negotiated arrangements. Today, America's global leadership is being tested in the Middle East. A similarly wise strategy of genuinely constructive political engagement is now urgently needed.

It is also time for the Congress to assert itself.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 01:46:50 PM by Lanya »
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BT

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Re: Brzezinski testimony
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2007, 02:01:25 AM »
Z was the guy who fomented the Iran Iraq War that cost millons of lives as well as the architect for the support of the rebels  in Afghanistan ( the USSR's Vietnam) from whence Obama sprang.

One could rightly say that the world we see today is one he designed.

Guess he got religion late in life, much like McNamara

Mucho

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Re: Brzezinski testimony
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2007, 12:32:29 PM »
Z was the guy who fomented the Iran Iraq War that cost millons of lives as well as the architect for the support of the rebels  in Afghanistan ( the USSR's Vietnam) from whence Obama sprang.

One could rightly say that the world we see today is one he designed.

Guess he got religion late in life, much like McNamara


At least those two acme to their senses. I doubt if the Bushidiot will ever do that. BTW, since you are now splitting hairs, what does Afghanistan have to do with Barak OBAMA. BWAHAHAHAHA!

BT

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Re: Brzezinski testimony
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2007, 01:09:17 PM »
Quote
At least those two acme (came) to their senses.

I do believe McNamara apologized for his designs, i don'tr recall reading where Z ever did.


domer

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Re: Brzezinski testimony
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2007, 04:45:50 PM »
Please specify how Brzezinski "fomented" the Iran-Iraq War -- with the clear implication that he somehoww caused it -- instead of just beeing National Security Adviser (not Secretary of State or President) at the time of its outbreak. As to Afghanistan, no matter the later collateral offshoots, the decision to arm and back the Afghani resistance contributed to the fall of the Soviet Union and thus our overriding long range strategic interests. And to say this I don't even have to get into unintended consequences or theretofore unimagined events, like Bush suffered thhrough on 9-11`.

BT

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Re: Brzezinski testimony
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2007, 06:40:40 PM »
Domer

Perhaps you should do some research into Z's arc of crisis and how that related to the overthrow of the shah, the unmasking of the Nojeh coup and saddams subsequent invasion into Iran.

Michael Tee

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Re: Brzezinski testimony
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2007, 01:06:24 AM »
BT seems to be implying that Brzezinski somehow was responsible for the overthrow of the Shah AND the Nojeh coup, which would be the first I ever heard of him participating in either.  I think the general view of the Iranian Revolution is that it caught the U.S. completely by surprise and was almost immediately recognized for the loss of a strategic ally (which it obviously was) and while there might have been some motivation to get Bakhtiar back in the saddle (he was already being referred to as a Kerensky figure) the Nojeh coup was strictly an Army affair which wouldn't have needed any U.S. help or encouragement.

Similarly with the Iran-Iraq war: while there seems to be no doubt that this was a product of the U.S. foreign policy establishment, I have never seen anything tying this to Brzezinski in particular, and even if there were, it was clearly in the U.S. interest at that point to take out the Khomeini government and Iraq seemed to be an ideal instrument for that purpose. 

BT's attempt to portray Brzezinski as some kind of loser based on the actions of the Carter administration in the late 70s and early 80s is, firstly, irrelevant and secondly, not even accurate.  Classic instance of "Shoot the messenger" or the ad hominem argument. 

Brzezinski had some pretty cogent and perceptive things to say about Iraq.  How about addressing what he said, rather than who he was?

BT

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Re: Brzezinski testimony
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2007, 01:35:50 AM »
Mikey,

If all things middle east revolve around oil, how was BP's negotiations coming along with the shah, prior to his abdication.

What surprises me is you are so willing to give Z the benefit of the doubt but are ready to crucify Condi for occupying the same position.

The Arc of crisis was a plan by Anglo/American trilateralists to:

1. Ensure continued easy access to middle east oil
and
2. foment sectarian rivalries in the middle east that eventually would spread to the underbelly of the soviet union.

That was official Carter policy designed and promoted by Z and his cabal.

Not much difference between his designs and those of the neo-cons.

The credibility of the message is often affected by the credibility of the messenger.

I certainly don't expect you to accept anything Bush says because you have problems with his credibility.

I don't see why the rules would be different when analyzing Z's pronouncements.

domer

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Re: Brzezinski testimony
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2007, 02:36:59 AM »
Cite, or better yet quote us, articles backing up what you say about Brzezinski. Sorry, but your credibility is about as low as Bush's with me.

BT

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Re: Brzezinski testimony
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2007, 02:46:41 AM »
Cite, or better yet quote us, articles backing up what you say about Brzezinski. Sorry, but your credibility is about as low as Bush's with me.

Failed Nojeh Coup
In July 1980, Zbigniew Brzezinski of the United States met Jordan's King Hussein in Amman to discuss detailed plans for Saddam Hussein to sponsor a coup in Iran against Khomeini. King Hussein was Saddam's closest confidant in the Arab world, and served as an intermediary during the planning. The Iraqi invasion of Iran would be launched under the pretext of a call for aid from Iranian loyalist officers plotting their own uprising on July 9, 1980 (codenamed Nojeh, after Shahrokhi/Nojeh air base in Hamedan). The Iranian officers were organized by Shapour Bakhtiar, who had fled to France when Khomeini seized power, but was operating from Baghdad and Sulimaniyah at the time of Brzezinski's meeting with Hussein. However, Khomeini learned of the Nojeh Coup plan from Soviet agents in France and Latin America. Shortly after Brzezinski's meeting with Hussein, the President of Iran, Abolhassan Bani-Sadr quietly rounded up 600 of the loyalist plotters within Iran, putting an effective end to the Nojeh Coup.[5] Saddam decided to invade without the Iranian officers' assistance, beginning the Iran-Iraq war on 22 September 1980.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_war

domer

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Re: Brzezinski testimony
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2007, 03:02:20 AM »
OK, without attribution, and thus a basis for judging credibility, I'll accept your Wikipedia article. (You know, of course, that the entries are reader written.) It appears to be sound statesmanship to me, in any event. And it seems the "war" was Saddam's sole idea. According to the plan, Iraq was to enter to aid the internal plotters, in what apparently was to be a quick operation. Lord knows, Nixon was applauded as a hero by your ilk over the Allende affair; it seems this was intended to last as long. Don't forget, there was a whole state apparatus that had just been displaced.

Very importantly, and to the point, I see no reason why this involvement would disqualify Brzezinski from making the utterly sound comments he's just made about Iraq.

Plane

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Re: Brzezinski testimony
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2007, 03:29:48 AM »
According to this 1998 interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski, the CIA's intervention in Afghanistan preceded the 1979 Soviet invasion. This decision of the Carter Administration in 1979 to intervene and destabilise Afghanistan is the root cause of Afghanistan's destruction as a nation.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html


Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.


This article claims that ZB's ideas have been the origin of many terror plots.

http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/brz.htm


In Afghanistan (as Brzezinski proudly states) and then in Bosnia, the US sponsored Muslim terror even as the State Department was officially condemning it. Because ordinary people would never support such a policy, it was sold to the public as support for freedom fighters (Afghanistan) or as defense of abused Muslims (Bosnia.)

By the late 1980s Brzezinski's protégé, Prof. Zalmay Khalilzad, was the  top strategist of the Afghan war.

Under the administration of Bush, Sr., Khalilzad was in charge of strategy at the Pentagon.  We have substantial evidence that it was under Bush, Sr., not Clinton, that the US began assisting the mujahideen in Bosnia.


« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 03:34:37 AM by Plane »

Amianthus

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Re: Brzezinski testimony
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2007, 09:02:03 AM »
OK, without attribution, and thus a basis for judging credibility, I'll accept your Wikipedia article.

The attribution is in the article: "Nojeh Nevis, The Iranian, Anatomy of a coup, July 23, 2004. Retrieved 1/1/2007."
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Michael Tee

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Re: Brzezinski testimony
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2007, 11:35:55 AM »
I read the Nojeh Nevis story and it did not mention Brzezinski.  For the record, here's the Wikipedia article in its entirety, with address, for Nojeh coup:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nojeh_Coup

The Nojeh coup (also spelled Nožeh) was a botched uprising that happened on July 11, 1980. Some of the top brass of the Iranian armed forces attempted to overthrow the newly established Islamic Republic of Iran. The officers under the guidance of Shapour Bakhtiar failed and were executed. Shapour Bakhtiar himself was assassinated in France by the Qods Force operatives.
The coup was supported by Saddam Hussein in response to attempts of the Iranian government to stir up Shi'a opposition against Saddam's Ba'ath party and the attempted assassination of Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz at al-Mustansiriyah University which resulted in the death of 11 Iraqi students.

from one of the links posted in the Wikipedia article, was this:

http://www.iranian.com/History/2004/July/Nojeh/

No evidence has surfaced so far that links the coup to foreign powers or shows that the officers had illegitimate intentions. The very fact that the coup's resources were not managed efficiently and plans were executed poorly, demonstrates the fact that the movement was most likely homegrown. Many of the officers believed that the country was heading in a wrong direction and in a desperate attempt to save Iran, they lost their lives.

There were other links that I did not follow.  Admittedly, the "no foreign links" story seems partisan, pro-Shah; one other story I found on it claims that Saddam Hussein was behind the coup in response to an assassination attempt on Tariq Aziz on a university campus.

The one thing I like about the Brzezinski allegation is that it sounds like the kind of shit he'd pull, and he was in a position to do it at the time.  It wasn't exactly out of line with traditional American foreign policy, that's for sure.


Michael Tee

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Re: Brzezinski testimony
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2007, 11:44:13 AM »
<<Mikey,

<<If all things middle east revolve around oil, how was BP's negotiations coming along with the shah, prior to his abdication. >>


I wasn't following the Shah's negotiations with BP and it really wouldn't affect my view of things anyway.  Under the Shah's predecessor, Mossadegh, there wouldn't have been anything to negotiate with BP's predecessor, the Anglo-Persian Oil Co., because Mossadegh had taken the oil away from Anglo-Persian and given it all back to the people to whom it belonged.  That the Shah had to negotiate with BP for what was, in effect, his own oil, says it all.

<<What surprises me is you are so willing to give Z the benefit of the doubt but are ready to crucify Condi for occupying the same position. >>

Kinda like asking how come I wanted to see Jeffrey Dahmer strung up by his balls, but a prison term would have satisfied me in the case of Ken Lay.  There's quite a difference between a coup d'etat and an invasion and occupation, as you can see.  And for the record, if Brzezinski HAD had a hand in the Nojeh coup, I wouldn't have supported that either.