Author Topic: What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On  (Read 4202 times)

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BSB

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What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On
« on: May 26, 2013, 09:20:03 PM »
What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On


By ETHAN BRONNER
Published: May 25, 2013

FOR years, conventional wisdom has held that as long as Israel faces the external challenge of Arab — especially Palestinian — hostility it will never come to terms with its internal divisions. The left has sometimes used it as an argument: we must make peace with the Palestinians so that we can set our house in order — write a constitution, figure out the public role of religion. Others have viewed the threat as almost a silver lining keeping the place together: differences among Israeli Jews (religious or secular, Ashkenazic or Sephardic) are so profound, the argument goes, that if the society ever manages to turn its attention inward, it might tear itself apart.

Back in Tel Aviv for a recent visit a year after ending my tour as Jerusalem bureau chief, I was struck by how antiquated that wisdom felt. At a fascinating and raucous wedding I attended and from numerous conversations with a range of Israelis, I came away with a very different impression. Few even talk about the Palestinians or the Arab world on their borders, despite the tumult and the renewed peace efforts by Secretary of State John Kerry, who has been visiting the region in recent days. Instead of focusing on what has long been seen as their central challenge — how to share this land with another nation — Israelis are largely ignoring it, insisting that the problem is both insoluble for now and less significant than the world thinks. We cannot fix it, many say, but we can manage it.

The wedding took place near Ben-Gurion airport, where a set of event halls has gone up in the past seven years, including elaborate structures with a distinct Oriental décor of glistening chandeliers, mirrored place mats and sky-high ceilings with shifting digital displays. The groom’s grandparents emigrated from Yemen; the bride’s came from Eastern Europe, an example of continuing and increasing intermarriage between Sephardim and Ashkenazim.

The music was almost entirely Middle Eastern in beat, some of it in Arabic, some of it religious. The hundreds on the dance floor, many staying until dawn singing along with arms gesticulating, came from across a range of political, geographic and religious spectra — from miniskirted to ultra-Orthodox modesty. Frumpy settlers in oversize skullcaps mingled with Tel Aviv metrosexuals in severe eyewear. Some women hugged you; others declined to shake your hand. Everyone was celebrating. No one, especially the Orthodox rabbi who presided over the ceremony, mentioned that the young couple had been living together for more than three years. Some talked politics with me. No one mentioned the Palestinians.

ISRAEL today offers a set of paradoxes: Jewish Israelis seem in some ways happier and more united than in the past, as if choosing not to solve their most difficult challenge has opened up a space for shalom bayit — peace at home. Yes, all those internal tensions still exist, but the shared belief that there is no solution to their biggest problem has forged an odd kind of solidarity.

Indeed, Israel has never been richer, safer, more culturally productive or more dynamic. Terrorism is on the wane. Yet the occupation grinds on next door with little attention to its consequences. Moreover, as the power balance has shifted from the European elite, Israel has never felt more Middle Eastern in its popular culture, music and public displays of religion. Yet it is increasingly cut off from its region, which despises it perhaps more than ever. Finally, while the secular bourgeoisie, represented by Yair Lapid’s Yesh Atid Party, has forged an unexpected alliance with West Bank settlers, represented by Naftali Bennett’s Habayit Hayehudi Party, aimed at reducing the political power of the ultra-Orthodox, alarm over the failure to address the Palestinian problem has grown in a surprising place — among some of the former princes of the Zionist right wing.

At a Jerusalem cafe one noon, Dan Meridor, the former Likud minister and son of right-wing Zionist aristocracy, could not stop talking about the Palestinians.


Christians4LessGvt

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Re: What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2013, 10:21:50 PM »
plus it doesn't hurt that your enemies are killing
each other as fast as they can to the north in Syria.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BSB

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Re: What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2013, 10:28:06 PM »
Well that's a factor in the equation.

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2013, 11:55:05 AM »
No matter who wins in Syria, it will not be a pro-Israeli group. There will always be more Syrians than Israelis.  Other than covert action, Israel cannot do much about what is going on in Syria, and that is as it should be. Jordan and Lebanon are also seriously affected by the Syrian Civil War, because of all the refugees. Israel would be wise to take advantage of the chaos to prevent Hezbollah from getting weapons, and I am sure they are doing this.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2013, 05:55:52 PM »
No matter who wins in Syria, it will not be a pro-Israeli group.
As far as Israel is concerned it really doesn't matter who "wins" in Syria.
Syria will be weaker for the time being.
Many parts of Syria have been reduced to ruins. (see video below)
It's likely even more will be utterly destroyed.
More bitter division exists now within Syria than before.
There will be a huge price to pay for over 80K people killed.
It will take years if not decades to rebuild.

Damascus, Syria: Syrian Capital in Ruins
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Plane

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Re: What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2013, 09:29:29 PM »
No matter who wins in Syria, it will not be a pro-Israeli group. There will always be more Syrians than Israelis.  Other than covert action, Israel cannot do much about what is going on in Syria, and that is as it should be. Jordan and Lebanon are also seriously affected by the Syrian Civil War, because of all the refugees. Israel would be wise to take advantage of the chaos to prevent Hezbollah from getting weapons, and I am sure they are doing this.


What keeps Isreal from bolstering whichever side grows weak? Each in turn, preventing a victoryand preventing a defeat.

Prolonging the war might not be an Isreali program, but it would be a cheap means to waste Iranian resorces.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2013, 09:55:40 PM »
What keeps Isreal from bolstering whichever side grows weak?
Each in turn, preventing a victory and preventing a defeat.
Prolonging the war might not be an Isreali program, but it would be a cheap means to waste Iranian resorces.

Plane you have been dead-on for some time on this situation. I think it was you months ago that said Syria was possibly a way to pit our enemies against each other and have them focused on killing each other, and using up resources instead of concentrating on making trouble for the Western world. I even wonder if someone is setting a trap for Hezbollah who now has over half their total troop strength in Syria. Could the US/France/UK use a no-fly zone enforcement or some other ruse like offering air support to the rebels to attack/destroy from the air half the Hezbollah entire army which is in Syria? We could pretend we were helping the rebels, but our real mission would be to destroy from the air Hezbollah's ground forces which I would think would be somewhat more exposed in Syria. Israel would be quietly cheering as would Turkey, Saudis, and others.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 10:12:53 PM by Christians4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Plane

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Re: What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2013, 10:16:24 PM »
What keeps Isreal from bolstering whichever side grows weak?
Each in turn, preventing a victory and preventing a defeat.
Prolonging the war might not be an Isreali program, but it would be a cheap means to waste Iranian resorces.

Plane you have been dead-on for some time on this situation. I think it was you months ago that said Syria was possibly a way to pit our enemies against each other and have them focused on killing each other, and using up resources instead of concentrating on making trouble for the Western world. I even wonder if someone is setting a trap for Hezbollah who now has over half their total troop strength in Syria. Could the US/Israel use a no-fly zone enforcement or some other ruse like offering air support to the rebels to attack/destroy from the air half the Hezbollah entire army which is in Syria? We could pretend we were helping the rebels, but our real mission would be to destroy from the air Hezbollah's ground forces which I would think would be somewhat more exposed in Syria.


I don't know , I really don't.

But if at a high level it were decided to whipsaw the danger untill it was exausted , I think this could possibly happen.

But this would require co-operation where we seldom see co-operation so Occams razor rejects it as a theroy.

A simpler theroy is that things are exactly as they appear, and our role is not central at all.

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Re: What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2013, 01:22:38 AM »
Yeah Plane, prolong it. Great idea. I think you had a similar whacked out theory regarding Iraq. It was a big barrel, we drew the fish, al Qaeda, in, and shot them. Fairy tales are good for putting children to sleep but they don't make for a safer world or sound military practice.

Common sense seems to be a rare commodity in here.


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sirs

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Re: What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2013, 02:51:47 AM »
You should know
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BSB

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Re: What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2013, 05:37:08 AM »
Well, you see it goes like this. The longer a civil war continues the more damage, suffering, hatred, and so forth, it generates. That kind of damage can take a generation, at least, to heal from. Further, the longer the war in Syria goes on the greater the threat of it metastasizing. Only a Hitler would wish for its continuation.

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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2013, 08:43:50 AM »
That kind of damage can take a generation, at least, to heal from.
A generation?
Hell....I still don't care much for Yankees and it's been 148 years!
Some of them are ok.
 ;)
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2013, 11:10:30 AM »
....also didn't take long for the Hitler deflection to be applied, when ironically, that's precisely what Israel is trying to avoid again
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BSB

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Re: What Mideast Crisis? Israelis Have Moved On
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2013, 12:41:00 PM »
"A generation?
Hell....I still don't care much for Yankees and it's been 148 years!
Some of them are ok."

You know what CU4, that's exactly right. You can still see the effects of our Civil War and it's been almost 150 years.


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