And we're supposed to "talk" to these folks

[sirs]

So under the right circumstances, apartheid is acceptable to you?

If we're going to define "right circumstance" as cease to exist, and modify your use of apartheid, then yea, it's acceptable. 

And you'll note that it's the Arab nations that need to make the 1st set of changes, as I outlined in my previous post, since it's the israelis always having to do whatever it is they're doing in response to something its beligerant neighbors (in the region) are/have been doing to them

[Henny]

I love how you completely ignored the foundation that has brought Isreal to be this evil South African-like place you try make it out to be, and again minimizing the reasons they were in Lebanon, yet focused on how disastrous it is.  And no matter how ludicrous it is for you to think I'm being as some RW Likud supporter, my point still remains, which you also managed to gloss right over;
- had Israel not been the focus of attacks since '48, and hadn't had to procure more lands in their defense,
- if other Arab nations would openly and publically condemn terrorist attacks on Israel,
- if other Arab nations took active steps to stop said attacks against Isreal,
- if other Arab nations would publically broadcast Israel's right to exist right where it is,

then Israel would have some legitimate reasons to rethink some of their foreign policy positions, as it relates to the Palestinians. 

And I'd have a legitimate reason to condemn them if they didn't

Yeah... you know, Sirs, South Africa's apartheid policies sprouted from a similar background - they said that they were protecting themselves from the black Africans. Yet the whole world cried out against South Africa and their policies.

I remember in high school a video on MTV with various famous artists singing "I Ain't Gonna Play Sun City." I wonder when we're going to see a similar video wailing "I Ain't Gonna Play Tel Aviv?"  

[_JS]

I love how you completely ignored the foundation that has brought Isreal to be this evil South African-like place you try make it out to be

I don't "make it out to be" - it is apartheid and several Jews who have fought against apartheid in South Africa and for Israel have agreed. It is blatantly racist policies complete with the dompass and forced removal to homelands. There is no "make it out to be" it simply is. Desmond Tutu agreed as well.

again minimizing the reasons they were in Lebanon, yet focused on how disastrous it is

I stated the reasons. I don't defend them because little can be said to defend the rape of Lebanon by either Israel or Syria.

And no matter how ludicrous it is for you to think I'm being as some RW Likud supporter

True. They at least know that Hezbollah belongs in Lebanon. You simply regurgitate their party propaganda without the background knowledge.


Basically Sirs, you defend apartheid. No matter how you rationalise it and justify it. There were other groups that defended it. The Monday Club in Britain were staunch defenders. White Citizens Councils defended apartheid.

And yes, "protection" is the name of the game. We have to protect our way of life. We have to protect our culture. The enemy are "foreigners" so we can classify them as "illegal immigrants." We have to protect the public's "safety and security" from "external" threats.

You think this language is new? South Africa. Fascist Germany. Southern United States. Fascist Spain and Portugal. French Algeria. The BNP. The National Front. Anti-Chinese leagues in 19th Century America.

It is nothing new. Apartheid has found many apologists. I don't accept that a Government can act in such a deplorable manner with the same tired language, simply because you've given them a free pass on all their actions.

You may be an apologist for instituional policies of racism, bigotry, and apartheid but I cannot walk down that path. I learned something different from the Holocaust, Rwanda, Congo, and the Yugoslav Wars.

[Amianthus]

You may be an apologist for instituional policies of racism, bigotry, and apartheid but I cannot walk down that path. I learned something different from the Holocaust, Rwanda, Congo, and the Yugoslav Wars.

Just to clarify, how do you feel about Mogadishu? Kosovo?

[sirs]

Yeah... you know, Sirs, South Africa's apartheid policies sprouted from a similar background

Oh?  They were being routinely rounded up and exterminated in the millions?  When the world woke up to that, and allowed them to settle in their home region, they were immediately attacked from all sides, with the goal largely of continuing the effort to exterminate them?  Please, do tell


 

[Henny]

Oh?  They were being routinely rounded up and exterminated in the millions?  When the world woke up to that, and allowed them to settle in their home region, they were immediately attacked from all sides, with the goal largely of continuing the effort to exterminate them?  Please, do tell

Here it is again... apartheid is OK now because of the Holocaust. Is that what you're trying to say? And apartheid wasn't OK in South Africa because the settlers there were never exterminated in the millions? Please.

No Sirs, what I said was that apartheid in South Africa started for similar reasons. The native Africans were attacking the white settlers. You know, because of colonialism and shuffling them off their land and moving them to new places, and taking their land from them. To protect themselves, white South Africans totally separated themselves from the blacks. Blacks weren't allowed in white areas, etc., etc.

But I guess it's alright by you if these miserable tan Arab people are treated this way? I mean, they're not black, so it's not the same thing?

[Henny]

Sirs, add this to your list of what other Arab countries are "doing" to help Israel. Now you have some definitive information on Egypt and some of the resources they dedicate to protecting Israel - and as you can see from the link, it came from an Israeli newspaper (via AP).
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=829649&contrassID=1&subContrassID=1
By The Associated Press
 
EL-ARISH, Egypt - Egyptian security forces discovered on Friday approximately one ton of explosives hidden underground near Egypt's border with Gaza, a security official said.

The explosives, mostly TNT that officials believe was recovered from land mines, were stashed in 34 plastic sacks, the security officer said speaking on condition of anonymity, because he is not authorized to give statements to the media. The explosives were to be smuggled to the Gaza Strip, he said.

Bedouin trackers working for the authorities led security forces to the underground hiding place in Nagaa Shabanah, a village a few kilometers south of the Rafah crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip.

The discovery came as hundreds of state-security forces and military intelligence personnel conducted a search operation in the Sinai Peninsula for two Palestinians believed to be plotting suicide attacks on Egyptian tourist resorts, the security officer said.

Smuggling across the border into Gaza or Israel has long provided a livelihood for some Bedouin. Weapons, cigarettes and foreigners seeking jobs in Israel are all taken surreptitiously across the border.

Israel has repeatedly accused Egypt of not doing enough to stop smuggling of weapons into Gaza, particularly through tunnels. Egypt recently said it would make a greater effort to stop smuggling.

[sirs]

 I look forward to when we can come to a mutual understanding of how things actually came to be

[larry]

I look forward to when we can come to a mutual understanding of how things actually came to be

Bondage: Policies, Practices And Laws

Religion and politics have always been the two greatest threats to the freedom of the individual. The truth is, very few people are given the right to create and establish laws. A circumstance of  bondage is contingent upon, either, voluntary or coerce acceptance. Human resource management has always been the cornerstone of religious and political philosophy. Moral and political indoctrination are designed to divide humans into opposing mindsets. What is the mindset of a good fascist citizen? It is the mindset of an individual whom accept the policies, practices and laws of the fascism police state. Zealots, we have too many of those making the rules for Americans today.

 

America's fascism coalition came into power with the election of  Ronald Reagan. The (Zero-Tolerance Initiative) was a classic fascist political ploy. Moral extremist became Ronald Reagan's propaganda ministry. The (Deregulation Initiative) was a classic fascist ploy to design economic polices, practices and laws that would benefit a fascism coalition.

Ronald Reagan's (Foreign Policy Initiative) was also a classic fascist ploy. America became an aggressor nation.

 

The truth is, the fascism state policies, practices and laws Americans are being subjected to today, began with Ronald Reagan and his extremist regime. Many political pundit try to muddy the water by flooding the medias with bogus claims, false statistics and misleading information. But the truth is, Ronald Reagan was a fascist zealot and Americans were fooled into supporting a fascist regime.

 

The truth about America's real economy is found in the comparison of wages and prices of 1980 and 2007. Inflated prices and stagnant wages are a classic fascist ploy to create economic bondage. Americans have become slaves to debt. The truth is there are far more individuals in America who earn less than $20,000 dollars a year than there are individuals who earn $50,000 dollars or more a year. Ask yourself this question. If you have five people in a room who earn between $15,000 dollars and $20,000 dollars a year each, what is their average income? Now if Bill Gates joins those five people in the room, what would the average income be? It will be a misleading number that sounds good on the evening news.

 

The image of the police state in 2007 does not look like the police state of the 1940s. Technology has changed the methods of  surveillance and law enforcement. The whole country has become a prison system and the elite guards are watching everyone. The swat teams are kept out of sight, but every city has elite swat teams ready to spring into action. Fascism policy, practice and law have evolved and too many Americans don't see it for what it is in reality.

 

There are risk involved in writing an article like this. Fascist don't like critics. And the fascist have many ploy to deal with non-conformist. Yes, the image of fascism has changed, but a rose, is a rose, is a rose evermore.

[sirs]

....snip...America is the root of all evil....snip....

Apparently Larry's not up to speed on how things in Israel have come to be as they are, either     

[larry]

Sirs, your lack of comprehension is astounding. Isreal is a U.S. protectorate, no matter how you look at it.

[_JS]

Please, do tell

Concentration camps were perfected by the British during the Boer Wars, Sirs. The Boers were often attacked by the various black African tribes, though some fought with the Boers and suffered at the concentration camps as well.

Most of the Boers at the concentration camps were women and children of whom 25% died. So yes, a huge amount of Boers died and they were attacked by neighbors.

[Amianthus]

Most of the Boers at the concentration camps were women and children of whom 25% died. So yes, a huge amount of Boers died and they were attacked by neighbors.

Except that this was all history of the region before the creation of the Republic of South Africa. Years before.

What neighbors attacked the Republic of South Africa? Which of their neighbors have threatened to remove them?

[_JS]

Except that this was all history of the region before the creation of the Republic of South Africa.

Yes. And the Holocaust came before the creation of Israel. Hence why I was drawing the parallel. In fact it is a great parallel, because the people who were punished the worst had nothing to do with the concentration camps. Very similar to the Palestinians.

[_JS]

By the way, here is a segment of the Decleration of the Establishment of the State of Israel:

it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations