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BSB

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U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
« on: June 14, 2013, 06:43:17 AM »
U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
By MARK MAZZETTI, MICHAEL R. GORDON and MARK LANDLER
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration, concluding that the troops of President Bashar al-Assad of Syria have used chemical weapons against rebel forces in his country’s civil war, has decided to begin supplying the rebels for the first time with small arms and ammunition, according to American officials.

The officials held out the possibility that the assistance, coordinated by the Central Intelligence Agency, could include antitank weapons, but they said that for now supplying the antiaircraft weapons that rebel commanders have said they sorely need is not under consideration.

Supplying weapons to the rebels has been a long-sought goal of advocates of a more aggressive American response to the Syrian civil war. A proposal made last year by David H. Petraeus, then the director of the C.I.A., and backed by the State Department and the Pentagon to supply weapons was rejected by the White House because of President Obama’s deep reluctance to be drawn into another war in the Middle East.

But even with the decision to supply lethal aid, the Obama administration remains deeply divided about whether to take more forceful action to try to quell the fighting, which has killed more than 90,000 people over more than two years. Many in the American government believe that the military balance has tilted so far against the rebels in recent months that American shipments of arms to select groups may be too little, too late.

Some senior State Department officials have been pushing for a more aggressive military response, including airstrikes to hit the primary landing strips in Syria that the Assad government uses to launch the chemical weapons attacks, ferry troops around the country and receive shipments of arms from Iran.

But White House officials remain wary, and on Thursday Benjamin J. Rhodes, one of Mr. Obama’s top foreign policy advisers, all but ruled out the imposition of a no-fly zone and indicated that no decision had been made on other military actions.

Mr. Obama declared last August that the use of chemical weapons by the Syrian government would cross a “red line” that would prompt a more resolute American response. In an April letter to Congress, the White House said that intelligence agencies had “varying degrees of confidence” that Syrian government troops had used chemical weapons. But the conclusion of the latest intelligence review, according to officials, is more definitive.

The White House said on Thursday that the Assad regime had used chemical weapons “on a small scale against the opposition multiple times in the last year.” The assessment came after American and European government analysts examined physiological evidence and other intelligence indicating that Syrian troops had used sarin gas against the opposition. The announcement said that American intelligence officials now believed that 100 to 150 people had died from the attacks, but officials cautioned that the number could be higher.

That conclusion is based on evidence that includes intelligence on the Assad government’s plans for the use of chemical weapons, accounts of specific attacks, and descriptions of symptoms experienced by victims of the attacks. Mr. Rhodes said the new assessment had changed the president’s calculus.

But the president’s caution has frayed relations with important American allies in the Middle East that have privately described the White House strategy as feckless. Saudi Arabia and Jordan recently cut the United States out of a new rebel training program, a decision that American officials said came from the belief in Riyadh and Amman that the United States has only a tepid commitment to supporting rebel groups.

Moreover, the United Arab Emirates declined to host a meeting of allied defense officials to discuss Syria, concerned that in the absence of strong American leadership the conference might degenerate into bickering and finger-pointing among various gulf nations with different views on the best ways to support the rebellion.

Adding to those voices was former President Bill Clinton, who earlier this week endorsed a more robust American intervention in Syria to help the rebels, aligning himself with hawks like Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, who fault Mr. Obama for his reluctance to get entangled in the war.

Speaking on Tuesday at a private session in New York with Mr. McCain, Mr. Clinton said, “Sometimes it’s best to get caught trying, as long as you don’t overcommit.”

A flurry of high-level meetings in Washington this week underscored the divisions within the Obama administration about what actions to take in Syria to stop the fighting. The meetings were hastily arranged after Mr. Assad’s troops, joined by thousands of fighters from the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah, claimed the strategic city of Qusayr and raised fears in Washington that large parts of the rebellion could be on the verge of collapse.

After weeks of efforts to organize a conference at which the Assad government and the opposition were to negotiate a political transition, the administration is now slowing down that effort, fearful that if it were held now, Mr. Assad would be in too strong a position to make any concessions.

The conference has been pushed back repeatedly amid warnings that the main rebel leaders did not plan to attend. But now, an administration official said, the focus will switch from setting a date to fortifying the rebels before they sit across the table from the government.

The timing of the announcement Thursday on the use of chemical weapons, an official said, reflected both the completion of the intelligence assessment and the fact that Mr. Obama leaves on Sunday for a meeting of the Group of 8 industrialized countries in Northern Ireland.

Formally designating the Assad government as a user of chemical weapons, this official said, will make it easier for Mr. Obama to rally support from Britain, France and other allies for further measures.

Until now, the American support to Syrian rebels has been limited to food rations and medical kits, although the Obama administration has quietly encouraged Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey to ship weapons into the country. The limited assistance that the Obama administration is now promising is likely to be dwarfed by the help that American officials said Iran provides to Mr. Assad’s government. Many of the weapons and other military assistance that Iran has provided has been flown to Damascus through Iraqi airspace, the officials said.

There was a lull in the flights after Secretary of State John Kerry pressed Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki of Iraq during a March visit to Baghdad to order more inspections of Iranian flights. By early May, however, the Iranian flights had started up again.

The flights, and Hezbollah’s decision to enter the fight on the side of the Assad government, have provided such an important boost for the Assad government that some senior State Department officials believe that Mr. Assad’s gains cannot be reversed unless the United States takes steps to curtail the Iranian arms flow, disabling the airfields that the Syrian government uses to receive arms, transport troops around the country and carry out air attacks.

Mr. Rhodes said there was no reason to think that the resistance has access to chemical weapons. “We believe that the Assad regime maintains control of these weapons,” he said.

According to a C.I.A. report, which was described by an American official who declined to be identified, the United States has acquired blood, urine and hair samples from two Syrian rebels — one dead and one wounded — who were in a firefight with Syrian government forces in mid-March northeast of Damascus. The samples showed that the rebels were exposed to sarin.

When the White House first disclosed its suspicions about the use of chemical weapons in April, Mr. Obama said he would defer action until an investigation found more conclusive evidence that established a “chain of custody” in the use of the gas.

The United States, working with Britain, France and Israel, was able to compile evidence that Syrian officials had planned and executed a string of chemical weapons attacks in Aleppo, Damascus and two other cities.



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/14/world/middleeast/syria-chemical-weapons.html

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2013, 12:16:14 PM »
It sounds like they are using poison gas as some sort of trigger here. It is likely that BOTH sides have used poison gas.
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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2013, 12:45:17 PM »
It sounds like they are using poison gas as some sort of trigger here. It is likely that BOTH sides have used poison gas.

Do you approve of Obama sending weapons to Syrian Rebels?
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BSB

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Re: U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2013, 01:01:52 PM »
Might be smarter to wait for Syrian Civil War II. That's the war that starts when Assad falls and the rebels break up into more clearly identifiable factions.

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Re: U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2013, 01:18:39 PM »
I suppose it depends on the weapons. Ammo and small arms, perhaps. There is lots of stuff that they should not give them.

I am not an expert on military matters. I do not want to see my country dragged into another Mideast war, because we cannot win those, doubly true of any country that borders on Israel.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2013, 09:43:15 PM »
Might be smarter to wait

I agree...but Obama basically OKs Shipment of Arms to Al-Qaeda in Syria!
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BSB

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Re: U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2013, 10:37:32 PM »
"Obama basically OKs Shipment of Arms to Al-Qaeda in Syria"

Hows he do that?


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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2013, 11:07:46 PM »
"Obama basically OKs Shipment of Arms to Al-Qaeda in Syria" Hows he do that? BSB

By doing an about-face and suddenly arming the rebels in Syria....Obama is in-effect
helping the main rebel group which is Al-Nusra Front which is an Al-Queda group.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/item/15708-president-obama-oks-shipment-of-arms-to-al-qaeda-in-syria
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BSB

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Re: U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2013, 11:11:55 PM »
Bullshit.

BSB

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Re: U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2013, 12:31:18 AM »
We've been secretly backing rebel groups, directly and indirectly, since this thing started. We know who is who. Now that we're talking about doing it more openly we won't suddenly be sending arms to Al Qaeda associated groups out of ignorance.


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Re: U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2013, 10:57:57 AM »
As BSB says, bullshit.

To "Christians", all Muslims are Al Qaeda. I am pretty sure that the Administration knows far better than whatever murky and Zionist news sources CU4 subscribes to who will be receiving the weapons.

All of this is clandestine activity, and the reality of what is REALLY going on will not be known for a long time.

I sure as Hell do not want the US to intervene in any active way with boots on the ground or planes in the air that could be shot down and the pilot held for ransom.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2013, 05:56:13 PM »
Egypt breaks off relations with Damascus

DEBKAfile

June 15, 2013
 
President Mohamed Morso said Saturday night that Egypt had decided to break off ties with the current regime in Syria, close its embassy in Cairo and recall Egypt's charge d'affaires. He was addressing the Support for Syria rally organized after the Muslim Brotherhood denounced Hizballah's intervention in Syria and backed calls for a Jihad there. Mursi urged world powers to enforce a no-fly zone over Syria.

http://www.debka.com/newsupdatepopup/4709/

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

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Re: U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2013, 11:49:42 AM »
   A no fly Zone over Syria near Jordan might not be too hard to do, American and Jordainian aircraft could take off and land in Jordan, and patroll a part of Syria enough to prevent the bombing of refugee camps.

   I am not especially worried that American Aircraft will be shot down in significant numbers, Saddam Hussein had pretty good air defences and in ten years of trying only shot down a few.

  How might Al Nusra feel about depending on American assistance to have an umbrella against air attack?

I wouldn't expect the Al Queda recruits to be enthused and play up the connection, as it turns out the enemy of my enemy might be usefull , without really being a friend at all.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2013, 12:50:04 PM »


Special Report: Syria's Islamists seize control as moderates dither

ALEPPO, Syria (Reuters) - As the Syrian civil war got under way, a former electrician who calls himself Sheikh Omar built up a brigade of rebel fighters. In two years of struggle against President Bashar al-Assad, they came to number 2,000 men, he said, here in the northern city of Aleppo. Then, virtually overnight, they collapsed.

Omar's group, Ghurabaa al-Sham, wasn't defeated by the government. It was dismantled by a rival band of revolutionaries - hardline Islamists.

The Islamists moved against them at the beginning of May. After three days of sporadic clashes Omar's more moderate fighters, accused by the Islamists of looting, caved in and dispersed, according to local residents. Omar said the end came swiftly.

The Islamists confiscated the brigade's weapons, ammunition and cars, Omar said. "They considered this war loot. Maybe they think we are competitors," he said. "We have no idea about their goals. What we have built in two years disappeared in a single day."

The group was effectively marginalized in the struggle to overthrow Syria's President Bashar al-Assad. Around 100 fighters are all that remain of his force, Omar said.

It's a pattern repeated elsewhere in the country. During a 10-day journey through rebel-held territory in Syria, Reuters journalists found that radical Islamist units are sidelining more moderate groups that do not share the Islamists' goal of establishing a supreme religious leadership in the country.

The moderates, often underfunded, fragmented and chaotic, appear no match for Islamist units, which include fighters from organizations designated "terrorist" by the United States.

The Islamist ascendancy has amplified the sectarian nature of the war between Sunni Muslim rebels and the Shi'ite supporters of Assad. It also presents a barrier to the original democratic aims of the revolt and calls into question whether the United States, which announced practical support for the rebels last week, can ensure supplies of weapons go only to groups friendly to the West.

World powers fear weapons could reach hardline Islamist groups that wish to create an Islamic mini-state within a crescent of rebel-held territory from the Mediterranean in the west to the desert border with Iraq.

That prospect is also alarming for many in Syria, from minority Christians, Alawites and Shi'ites to tolerant Sunni Muslims, who are concerned that this alliance would try to impose Taliban-style rule.

REPROBATES AND OUTLAWS

Syria's war began with peaceful protests against Assad in March 2011 and turned into an armed rebellion a few months later following a deadly crackdown. Most of the rebel groups in Syria were formed locally and have little coordination with others. The country is dotted with bands made up of army defectors, farmers, engineers and even former criminals.

Many pledge allegiance to the notion of a unified Free Syrian Army (FSA). But on the ground there is little evidence to suggest the FSA actually exists as a body at all.

Sheikh Omar told the story of his brigade while sitting in a cramped room at his headquarters, a small one-storey building surrounded by olive tree fields in Aleppo province. Wrapped around his chest he wore a leather bandolier that held two pistols, grips pointing outwards, ready to be drawn by crossing his arms.

He said he was from a poor background in rural Aleppo province. When he and a handful of others had started a rebel group to oppose Assad, fear had made it hard to recruit. The rich and law-abiding were scared. Only outlaws and reprobates would join him at first.

"We were looking for good people. But who was willing to work for me and help me? Those who used to go to bars, to fight with people and steal. Those are the people who allied with me and fought against the regime." As he spoke some of his remaining fighters tried to interject; he silenced them, saying he wanted to be honest.

LOOTING

Ghurabaa al-Sham started with modest aims, Omar said. They would enter small police stations and negotiate a handover of weapons in return for free passage out of the area for the police.

But their numbers grew to 2,000 men, he said, and they fought battles to take border posts with Turkey and were one of the first rebel brigades to move into Aleppo, Syria's most populous city with 2.5 million inhabitants.

More than half of the city fell to the rebels, but Assad's army pushed back, fighting street by street for months. A stalemate ensued. Very little progress has been made from either side for almost a year.

Where the government forces did cede ground, Aleppo's residents did not welcome the rebels with open arms. Most fighters were poor rural people from the countryside and the residents of Aleppo say they stole. Omar acknowledged this happened.

"Our members in Aleppo were stealing openly. Others stole everything and were taking Syria's goods to sell outside the country. I was against any bad action committed by Ghurabaa al-Sham. However, things happened and opinion turned against us," he said as his men squirmed in their seats, uncomfortable with his words.

Ghurabaa al-Sham was not the only group to take the law into its own hands. In Salqin, a town in Idlib province bordering Turkey, fighters from a rebel brigade called the Falcons of Salqin have set up checkpoints at the entrances to the town.

Abu Naim Jamjoom, deputy commander of the brigade, said the rebels take a cut of any produce - food, fuel or other merchandise - that enters Salqin. The goods are distributed to the town's residents, he said, but some rebel groups steal this "tax" for themselves.

Part of the problem is that the rebel groups are poorly equipped and badly coordinated. Jamjoom said he had 45 men with guns and two homemade mortar launchers but was desperately low on ammunition. "Everything we have has been looted from the regime," he said, echoing the response of most rebel commanders when asked if they have received any outside support.

Jamjoom, who wore a blue camouflaged outfit and kept a grenade in his left pocket, said he had registered his group with the Supreme Military Council, a body set up by the U.S.-backed Syrian National Coalition of opposition groups to help coordinate rebel units.

"We haven't received any help from the military council," Jamjoom said, drinking sweet tea on the balcony of his headquarters, the house of a pro-Assad dignitary who had fled the area. "We have to depend on ourselves. I am my own mother, you could say."

He tugged at his uniform. "I bought this myself, with my money," he said. He also said his group buys weapons from other brigades, "from those who have extra." Weapons trading by rebel groups raises the risk that arms supplied by Western powers may fall into the hands of Islamist groups.

Western officials say military aid will be channeled through the Supreme Military Council. A Western security source told Reuters the council is trying to gain credibility, but as yet it has little or no authority.

Meanwhile, Jamjoom and his men were largely staying around Salqin, low on ammunition and low on energy. Inside the mansion they have commandeered, rebels lazed about on the gaudy fake-gold furniture in a room full of books, including religious texts and a copy of "The Oxford Companion to English Literature."

ISLAMIST ARBITERS

The Islamists are more energetic and better organized. The main two hardline groups to emerge in Syria are Ahrar al-Sham and Jabhat al-Nusra, an al Qaeda offshoot that has claimed responsibility for dozens of suicide bombings, including several in Damascus in which civilians were killed.

But Islamist fighters, dressed in black cotton with long Sunni-style beards, have developed a reputation for being principled. Dozens of residents living in areas of rebel-held territory across northern Syria told Reuters the same thing, whether they agreed with the politics of Jabhat al-Nusra or not: the Islamists do not steal.

Aaron Zelin, a fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy who researches Islamic militants, said the main reason groups such as Jabhat al-Nusra and Ahrar al-Sham have become popular is because of the social provisions they supply. "They are fair arbiters and not corrupt."

In Aleppo four Islamist brigades, including Jabhat al-Nusra and Ahrar al-Sham, have taken over the role of government and are providing civilians with day-to-day necessities. They have also created a court based on Islamic religious laws, or sharia.

The Aleppans call it "the Authority" and it governs anything from crimes of murder and rape to business disputes and distributing bread and water around the city. The power of such courts is growing, Authority members and rebels said, and is enforced by a body called the "Revolutionary Military Police."

At the police's headquarters, a five-storey building surrounded with sandbags, a large placard outside read: "Syrian Islamic Liberation Front." It referred to a union of several Islamist brigades, forged in October 2012, which seeks to bring together disparate fighting groups. Its Islamist emphasis has already alienated some other fighters.

The head of the Aleppo branch of the Revolutionary Military Police, Abu Ahmed Rahman, comes from Liwa al-Tawhid, the largest rebel force in Aleppo. Ostensibly al-Tawhid has pledged its support for the U.S.-recognized Syrian National Coalition, but its role in the Authority alongside Ahrar al-Sham and Jabhat al-Nusra shows an alliance with more radical groups.

As Rahman sat at a large desk on the ground floor, people rushed in and out, asking him to stamp and sign documents. He said that the worst problem the police had encountered so far was with Ghurabaa al-Sham, who had clashed with a sub-division of Liwa al-Tahwid for control of Aleppo's industrial city, a complex of factories and office blocks sprawling over 4,000 hectares on the north-east outskirts of the city.

"Ghurabaa al-Sham fighters were annoying people, looting," he said. The industrial area offered plenty of plunder. Residents of Aleppo said rebels found machinery and equipment in the factories that could be sold in Turkey.

Rahman said the Authority summoned Ghurabaa al-Sham to a hearing but they didn't show up. "Then all the brigades went to get them. Jabhat al-Nusra, Ahrar al-Sham and other rebel units," he said.

Abu Baraa, an employee at the Authority, said: "We gathered a lot of people with guns and everything. We went to the industrial city and we arrested everyone who was there. Then we did the interrogation. Those who did not steal were set free, and the others were put in prison.

"Before this Sharia Authority, every brigade did whatever it wanted. Now they have to ask for everything. We are in charge now, God willing. We are the supervisors. If you do something wrong, you will be punished."

A POWER STRUGGLE

Members of Ghurabaa al-Sham gave a different version of events and have a different world view. "Why is the Sharia Authority allowed to control us? We didn't elect them," said Abdul-Fatah al-Sakhouri, who works in the media center for Ghurabaa al-Sham, an old taxi station in Aleppo where he and some other fighters upload videos of battles against the Syrian army onto YouTube.

Al-Sakhouri, previously a mathematics teacher, said the head of the Ghurabaa al-Sham unit in the industrial city had gone to the Authority to sort out the dispute. "Commander Hassan Jazera was there for three hours and then left. It shows that they didn't arrest him and there were no real charges against us," he said.

The dispute, Ghurabaa al-Sham fighters said, was really about power. They said their brigade, made up of fighters ranging from Islamists to secularists but all in favor of a civilian state, was not part of the Islamist alliance formed between Jabhat al-Nusra, Ahrar al-Sham and Liwa al-Tawhid.

Another member of Ghurbaa al-Sham, who called himself Omar, said the Islamist alliance wanted to weaken his group because it disagrees with Islamist ideology and seeks democracy.

Illustrating his fear of Islamist cultural restrictions, Omar said he was a fan of the American heavy metal band Metallica and pulled out a mobile phone to show a Metallica music video. The 24-year-old said Syrian businessmen once promised millions of dollars to bring Metallica to Aleppo but, in the end, the government rejected the plan.

"Jabhat al-Nusra wouldn't want this either," he said.

So far the Islamist groups have been the ones to attract outside support, mostly from private Sunni Muslim backers in Saudi Arabia, according to fighters in Syria.

With the help of battle-hardened Sunni Iraqis, these groups have been able to gain recruits. "They had military capabilities. They are actually organized and have command and control," said Zelin of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

As moderate rebel groups dithered, so did their backers outside the country. Bickering among the political opposition, a collection of political exiles who have spent many years outside Syria, also presented a problem for the United States about whether there would be a coherent transition to a new government if Assad fell.

But most importantly, Western powers fear that if weapons are delivered to Syrian rebels, there would be few guarantees they would not end up with radical Islamist groups, such as Jabhat al-Nusra, who might one day use them against Western interests.

The moderates are losing ground. In many parts of rebel-held Aleppo, the red, black and green revolutionary flag which represents more moderate elements has been replaced with the black Islamic flag. Small shops selling black headbands, conservative clothing and black balaclavas have popped up around the city and their business is booming.

Reuters met several Islamist fighters who had left more moderate rebel brigades for hardline groups. One member of Ahrar al-Sham, who would only speak on condition of anonymity, said: "I used to be with the Free Syrian Army but they were always thinking about what they wanted to do in future. I wanted to fight oppression now."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/19/us-syria-rebels-islamists-specialreport-idUSBRE95I0BC20130619
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Plane

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Re: U.S. Is Said to Plan to Send Weapons to Syrian Rebels
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2013, 06:06:27 PM »
This is happening faster than it did in Afghanistan.

Perhaps they realize how critical it is to have the support of the people , the Taliban got a lot of community support when they were the only party that promised discipline.

If they take over and act friendly perhaps we can get along with them, if they take over and harbor threats to the USA we may wind up with the same need to invade Syria that we had to invade Afghanistan.