Author Topic: Conceiled carry Open carry  (Read 4356 times)

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sirs

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Re: Conceiled carry Open carry
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2013, 08:38:03 PM »
That made no sense.  He asked about brainstorming ideas.  I referenced the notion (possible plan) of providing opportunity to incentivise potential CCW holders, with improved access to Safety Courses and firearms training, such as IDPA.  So, it was never Plane's idea, as it relates to IDPA

Would you like to provide some ideas to bring about a goal of 5% of the population as being CCW holders?  THAT would be Plane's idea

Yes , but I wouldn't mind hearing about some other ideas that would discurage violent crime.

Me too, which is why I asked B, and will be patiently awaiting his input

Hmmmmmmmmmm
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BSB

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Re: Conceiled carry Open carry
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2013, 08:56:11 PM »

sirs

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Re: Conceiled carry Open carry
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2013, 08:59:37 PM »
So..........no suggestions to contribute towards the point of the thread?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Conceiled carry Open carry
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2013, 11:06:51 PM »
take a look at this baby: http://www.turnbullmfg.com/store.asp?pid=36432




  There is a very good rifle .

Underneath a baroque work of art.

Plane

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Re: Conceiled carry Open carry
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2013, 11:15:40 PM »
How much of a deterrent factor do you think this could be?


Ah well , untill it is well known it is not a deterent at all.

The point of deterence is to break the confidence of a criminal that he will succeed.

So this would have to be a well publicised success before it was an effective deterrant.

I think that mechanical sorting of people ought to cause us qualms, but we could wind up doing it.

sirs

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Re: Conceiled carry Open carry
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2013, 11:44:26 PM »
How much of a deterrent factor do you think this could be?

Ah well , untill it is well known it is not a deterent at all.

Which really is the key here.  Yes, the technology is necessary, but its goal needs to be one of deterrence

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Conceiled carry Open carry
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2013, 12:00:59 AM »
How much of a deterrent factor do you think this could be?

Ah well , untill it is well known it is not a deterent at all.

Which really is the key here.  Yes, the technology is necessary, but its goal needs to be one of deterrence

That is a matter of philosophy , or strategy if you rather.

If the laws are good laws only bad people want to break them, so if you deter crime you merely postpone the inevitable, but if by means secret or public you catch lawbreakers you reduce the number of people who need to be watched.

OR

Lawbreaking is innate to human nature, every criminal detered is a spate of crimes not begun.

Or

Crime happens where the oppurtunity exists , deterance reduces the rate of something that is not possible to eliminate.

So do you want to develop a secret tecnique that harvests the few criminals who neveer know what hits them?

Or do you assume that all of us are criminals but for the effectiveness of deterance and so all advances in deterance are to the good and secret devices are just entrapment of people who might have remained honest a long time if properly deterred?

sirs

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Re: Conceiled carry Open carry
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2013, 12:28:50 AM »
Bad guys are bad guys.  Evil is evil.  The combination is going to do what they're going to do regardless of the laws, which is why the call for MORE gun laws and restrictions is so ridiculous, and why so many mass shootings occur in so-called "gun free zones".  Check out how those gun laws in Chicago & DC are doing, 2 of the most strict gun law locations, in the country

Deterrence + Enforcement of current laws = significant decrease in violent crime.  One without the other will get you perhaps some measured decrease............maybe
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BSB

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Re: Conceiled carry Open carry
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2013, 08:31:04 AM »
" There is a very good rifle .

Underneath a baroque work of art."


There's a lot of history behind engraved lever-action Winchesters. They made a movie based on the 1873 "one of one thousand".   


BSB

sirs

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Re: Conceiled carry Open carry
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2013, 02:04:13 PM »
That made no sense.  He asked about brainstorming ideas.  I referenced the notion (possible plan) of providing opportunity to incentivise potential CCW holders, with improved access to Safety Courses and firearms training, such as IDPA.  So, it was never Plane's idea, as it relates to IDPA

Would you like to provide some ideas to bring about a goal of 5% of the population as being CCW holders?  THAT would be Plane's idea

Yes , but I wouldn't mind hearing about some other ideas that would discurage violent crime.

Me too, which is why I asked B, and will be patiently awaiting his input

Hmmmmmmmmmm

Apparently not able to.  Ok, moving on
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Conceiled carry Open carry
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2013, 03:04:53 PM »
She did everything right......and she's still dead

WEST HILLS -- Hours after the arrest of a San Fernando Valley teacher for allegedly stabbing his estranged wife to death at her friends' home, witnesses recounted the horrifying aftermath of the attack, when they were unable to save her life as she lay bleeding in the street. | RESTRAINING ORDER: It didn't work for mother of two

Retired photographer Loni Specter watched helplessly Saturday morning as a 43-year-old mother of two, Michelle Ann Kane, took her final gasps. Los Angeles Police Department officials say she was stabbed multiple times outside the home of friends in the 7100 block of Deveron Ridge Road, where she had taken refuge from her husband. Elementary teacher Michael Rodney Kane, 46, was taken into custody Monday without incident shortly after midnight in the Joshua Tree area, officials announced.

Specter said his 20-year-old daughter heard some commotion outside and saw what appeared to be a woman lying in the street with a man kneeling over her Saturday. She then ran back inside and called the rest of the family outside.

"We saw a woman lying in the street with blood flowing downhill," Specter said in a telephone interview. "There were so many stab wounds on her back, in her cheek, in the top of her head, in her sides. ... She was dead, I'm sure, within moments of being attacked."

Specter's wife Julie tried to stop the bleeding with a towel while their son Colin, 25, was doing chest compressions to "try to keep whatever life was in her."

Julie tried to give Kane mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, Specter said, but there was so much blood on Kane's face that it was not possible. Police and paramedics soon arrived, and she was declared dead at the scene.

Specter said Michelle Kane and her two young children were staying with his

The West Hills home where Michelle Kane was allegedly murdered by estranged husband Michael Kane over the weekend is seen on Monday, June 17, 2013. (David Crane/Los Angeles Daily News) next-door neighbor, whom he only knew as Howard, and his family, he said.

Gary Phillips, a neighbor of Howard's, said he saw through his kitchen window Howard's wife come running out of their house screaming "Call 9-1-1" Saturday morning. Phillips said he called the police and saw a man hopping in a car and driving off. He then saw his neighbors, the Specters, running to give the woman aid.

"It's just something no one's prepared for," Phillips said. Howard and his wife "went to his (Michael Kane's) wedding. They were close friends. You never know."

Specter said Howard told him after the incident that he had known the Kanes for many years. Howard also told Specter that Michael Kane came to the door and calmly asked to speak to his wife. When Howard said that wasn't a good idea, Michael then pushed him out of the way, burst through the door and wrestled with him. Kane then pulled out a pocket knife, which Howard tried to take away from him, and then sliced Howard's hand open, Specter said, citing Howard's account. Howard yelled for Michelle to run as fast as she could but the man followed her out and proceeded to finish her off on the street -- about 50 or 60 feet from Howard's front door.

Howard, who was treated at a hospital and released, could not be reached Monday. A man who answered the door at his home declined to talk to a reporter.

Michael Kane, who is employed by the Los Angeles Unified School District, has worked as a teacher since 1997 and has taught since July 2008 at Nestle Avenue Charter Avenue Elementary in Tarzana.

Police identified him as a suspect soon after the stabbing.

After an alert was sent out, San Bernardino County sheriff's officials located the suspect's vehicle Sunday abandoned in a parking lot in the Twentynine Palms/Joshua Tree area, Lt. Warren Jones of the LAPD Topanga Division said. That prompted investigators to focus on that region, where Kane had a relative. San Bernardino County sheriff's conducted a search of the relative's home, but did not find the suspect. But he was later found in a motel in the Joshua Tree area and was taken into custody without incident, he said.

According to a hotel clerk, Michael Kane checked in about 3 p.m. Saturday at the Desert View Motel on Primrose Drive in Yucca Valley, saying he planned to stay for two nights. He handed over a $100 bill and got $10 change, along with the key to Room 112.

"He looked just like a regular person," said the clerk, who refused to give her name. "He was walking around, he went shopping. He walked back and forth to the Walmart," which was less than a mile away. "He didn't look like there was anything wrong."

After he was taken into custody, Kane, who police said lives in either Canoga Park or West Hills, was treated at a medical facility for lacerations and punctures, then taken to the Topanga station and eventually booked for murder at the downtown county men's jail, said Lt. Jones. Kane is expected to be arraigned Wednesday at the Van Nuys Courthouse, Jones said.

He had been transferred to the county jail because of the extent of his injuries and because "they wanted a higher level of medical oversight for him," Jones said. It was not immediately clear if the injuries were sustained during Saturday's alleged attack on his wife or at another time, he said.

A day before her death, Michelle Kane of West Hills had visited the Topanga station and reported that her husband -- from whom she was separated and was in the process of a divorce -- had violated a restraining order, police said.

Her family released a statement Monday calling the incident "a shocking and horrific tragedy."

"Michelle was a wonderful mother who loved her children deeply, and did everything she could to protect them," the statement read. "The family appreciates everyone's thoughts and prayers, and requests that the media please respect their privacy at this very difficult time, while their focus is on Michelle's children."

Her family law attorneys said Monday that Michelle Kane had made multiple pleas to police for protection from her estranged husband.

"We advised Ms. Kane to take all necessary precautions available to her with regard to the restraining order we were able to obtain on her behalf, which she took," said Steve Mindel, managing partner at Feinberg, Mindel, Brandt & Klein, in a written statement. "She went to the police station Friday, twice, and later called again to seek assistance from what she considered an imminent threat to her life and the lives of her children."

Jones said he could not confirm that Kane had also called after visiting the police station to seek assistance from what she considered an imminent threat. Jones did say that had conducted an investigation and completed a lengthy report about the alleged violation of a temporary restraining order. That, however, would go through the court system back to the judge, who granted the original restraining order, he said.

Meantime, neighbors were relieved to hear of the quick arrest.

"I'm happy he's not at large, and I'm sure he'll get what's coming to him," Specter said.


....the only thing left that would have prevented this....a firearm.  A CCW in particular
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Conceiled carry Open carry
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2013, 09:54:57 PM »
" There is a very good rifle .

Underneath a baroque work of art."


There's a lot of history behind engraved lever-action Winchesters. They made a movie based on the 1873 "one of one thousand".   


BSB

Was that the one with Jimmy Stewart?

Stewart was one of my favorites.

I have a utilitarian preference for my own stuff, but I acknowledge the right and the value to others of art.

All the art I own is within my hands and my head, what I understand  is mine , why own the article if I get the point?

BSB

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Re: Conceiled carry Open carry
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2013, 10:12:11 PM »
Ok

Plane

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Re: Conceiled carry Open carry
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2013, 06:08:33 PM »
So my attitude is going to starve all of the professional artists in the world to death and you say that is OK?

BT

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Re: Conceiled carry Open carry
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2013, 06:42:51 PM »
i would think fancy artwork on rifles would be done on commission versus speculation.