Author Topic: Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?  (Read 2252 times)

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Plane

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Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?
« on: August 11, 2014, 02:42:00 AM »

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2014, 05:09:14 AM »
All foreign policy debate in every election that I recall, has been shallow and simplistic.
Invading Iraq a second time was also shallow and simplistic.
The US is too big a nation, with too many factions involved, to have a coherent foreign policy no matter which party is in charge.
Th the Mideast there has always been a conflicted foreign policy, as every government seeks to suck up to Israel (for the Jewish lobby) and to the Saudi leaders (who are allies of Big Oil).

The US will never have a foreign policy that is truly coherent, no matter which party is in charge.

The best policy is to oppose eternal war which is what the military industrial complex wants, so they can sell and export weapons, because fewer Americans are killed, maimed and driven insane that way.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2014, 07:34:20 PM »
The US is too big a nation, with too many factions involved, to have a coherent foreign policy no matter which party is in charge.
That is true, but is a poor excuse for any particular President or Senate.
Quote
The  Mideast there has always been a conflicted foreign policy, as every government seeks to suck up to Israel (for the Jewish lobby) and to the Saudi leaders (who are allies of Big Oil).
Don't forget the Christians , who have a very pro Israeli faction.
Quote

The US will never have a foreign policy that is truly coherent, no matter which party is in charge.
Not Madison ,T. Roosevelt or F. Roosevelt?
Quote

The best policy is to oppose eternal war which is what the military industrial complex wants, so they can sell and export weapons, because fewer Americans are killed, maimed and driven insane that way.

  I resemble that remark, most of my career has been devoted to the strength of the USA, and I am not apologizing. The stronger we are , the fewer times we will have wars and the shorter they will be. Unless loosing them sooner is considered an option? The number and kind of wars we have is dependent on political decisions in our leadership and in the leadership of potential enemies, not at the level of generals or their industrial suppliers.

   I vote not to make ourselves so weak that the entire decision of whether or not to fight shall be in the hands of our attackers, rather to make ourselves so strong that most potential attackers smart enough to fight us are also smart enough to see the bad bet that fighting us represents. That would be half the problem.

     The other half of the problem would be ourselves , and electing leadership that has enough wisdom to know the difference between restraint and weakness, so that weakness is not considered a good substitute for restraint.

       Wise leaders fight when there is a real need , and not more and not less.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2014, 09:06:33 PM »
The enemy now is not a country or an army, it is small groups of terrorists that cannot be defeated with armies.

I do not think that FDR has a coherent foreign policy until Dec 7, 1941.
Madison was president of a small puny nation. T Roosevelt was nuts about mongering wars.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2014, 12:30:49 AM »
T Roosevelt was nuts about mongering wars.


http://www.shmoop.com/theodore-teddy-roosevelt/timeline.html


Really?

Too bad then that he made no war while he was president , do you suppose he was disappointed?


You know he won the Nobel Peace Prize , for which no Korean would have voted.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2014, 08:36:28 AM »
If you read what TR wrote, he thought that wars were good for a people. He was gung ho about WWII. And you are right, he invited Japan to take over Korea. He was a racist and thought that Japanese were genetically and culturally superior to Koreans (and Russians as well). It is true that the country fought no wars while he was in office, but there was a major rebellion in the Philippines. Arthur MacArthur, Douglas's father was a disaster as military governor, and for Filipinos were very happy to see him replaced by William Howard Taft.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2014, 03:30:25 AM »
Yes , and he was very progressive too.

But as a Warmonger he was a flop, if he didn't actually make a war.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2014, 09:29:01 AM »
I just finished reading a book about TR and Taft called the Bully Pulpit. It was detailed and entertaining, and got into all the good and bad points of  both Taft and TR. I think that both men served the country well, certainly better than a hack like Mark Hanna or an ill-informed religious nutcase like Bryan, who was a great speaker but pretty much useless as an actual leader.

Taft was the LAST Republican, other than Eisenhower, who was better than his opponent.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2014, 09:06:48 PM »
  I don't know why you wouldn't like Calvin Coolidge, I don't even know why you don't count Eisenhower as a real Republican.


   

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2014, 11:51:48 PM »
Coolidge did nothing. There was nothing to like.
Eisenhower did not vote for anyone until he voted for himself at age 61.  There were 39 of 40 years of elections he could have voted in, and he disregarded them all. He chose to be a Republican in 1952. He was offered the Democratic nomination as well. I have heard that he turned down the democrats because he did not want to run against MacArthur, who also wanted to be president. Eisenhower was clearly an excellent mediator and politician, and MacArthur more of a vainglorious posturing fool.

Mac Arthur did manage to help make some good decisions with regard to rebuilding and restructuring Japan. But he was too ruthless to be a decent president.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2014, 06:35:14 PM »
  I like Eisenhower, and I agree that he didn't owe too much to party which would be a nice thing to happen again if it were possible.

   I agree about MacArthur, his governance of Japan was terrific and was the best thing he ever did, the rest of his career included a lot of mistakes that got papered over at the time.

    Calvin Coolidge was a deep thinker and spoke little , not the type we could elect nowadays , but he was a nearly ideal president and gets put into the top five by a lot of serious Republicans. I would like to vote for him myself , but he is too disqualified and there isn't likely an equivalent to be offered.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2014, 11:37:30 PM »
Coolidge did nothing at all to encourage legislation to end wild speculation and trading on the margins in the stock market. He was nothing but a Harding without the scandal and the mistress. Another Republican hack.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2014, 04:40:28 AM »
  As much as Coolidge was terrific Harding was terrible, he appointed one of the most corrupt cabinets ever and corruption ran like a river.

    Who says that a president has to be busy and involved to be a good president?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2014, 09:40:55 AM »
I would say that.  A stagnant government makes for a stagnant country. My parents were born in 1902 and 1910 and certainly did not think much of Coolidge. My father thought that Herbert Hoover was a very admirable sort of man in 1928 who would get things moving. My father was an usher at the GOP National Convention in Kansas City that nominated Hoover.

By 1932, their opinion of Hoover had changed.  Hoover did nothing to help the people that was useful He did not even try. He did not believe it was the function of the government to try.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Remember discussion of forign policy before the election?
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2014, 06:42:56 PM »
   I don't think that the great Depression can be directly blamed on the president , but I am willing to blame the government in general.

    Of course If you would like to blame the recent very slow economy on the President I won't stop you.