But did he have an open carry certificate?

[sirs]

What sort of moron even allows a nine years old gir to touch a loaded Uzi?

Shyanne Roberts, 9-year-old competitive shooter, weighs in on NJ girl in Arizona Uzi accident

Shyanne Roberts isn't deterred.

The highly trained competitive shooter, who will turn 10 on Thursday, said that she was upset when she heard a 9-year-old New Jersey girl accidentally shot and killed an instructor as he showed her how to shoot a fully automatic weapon on Monday, but that didn't dampen her desire to learn to shoot one herself.

"This is what I do, and I don't want to stop," said Shyanne outside of her Franklin Township, Gloucester County home on Wednesday night. "I want to do more."

While she showed off five of her custom-made weapons, provided to her by some of her dozen or so national corporate sponsors, she has yet to handle a fully automatic weapon.

Her father Dan Roberts, a weapons instructor who began teaching Shyanne to shoot at age 4, said that's more to do with the lack of opportunity to shoot a fully automatic rifle in New Jersey, where they're highly regulated, than concerns she couldn't handle one.

"It really depends on the individual circumstances," said Roberts when asked if children should be allowed to operate automatic weapons at a young age. "It's situational."

A video of the moments leading up to the accident at the "Bullets and Burgers" range in White Hills, Arizona, show instructor Charles Vacca, 39, of Lake Havasu City, Arizona, standing beside the girl at the Last Stop outdoor shooting range when she pulled the trigger of what was reported to be an Uzi.

The recoil sent the gun over the head of the girl, whose name has not been released, and the instructor was hit by an unspecified amount of bullets.

Vacca died Monday, a short time after being airlifted to a hospital in Las Vegas, authorities said.

Roberts said that when Shyanne does get the chance to shoot an automatic rifle, they'll be following strict safety rules that Vacca clearly violates in the video.

First, Roberts said Vacca was standing to the side and slightly in front of the girl at the range, violating the "180-degree" rule in which instructors are required to stand behind the shooter and not within the 180 degrees in front of them.

He also should have been physically overtop of hers, and if not, at least hovering right above.

"What that would've done, as soon as she started to lose control, he could've immediately directed that weapon in a safe direction," said Roberts.

He also said the automatic weapon should not have been fully loaded with a 30-round magazine. Whenever he starts out a student on a platform they're new to handling, he starts out with one round, and then moves to two.

"You progress as you add rounds in increments," said Roberts, noting if the girl in the accident had only three rounds, the magazine would've been empty before any could reach the instructor. "Absolutely no way would I ever allow, 'Oh here's a 30-round magazine, have fun. Especially with a novice, you have no idea what they're capable of."

"She wasn't in full control and didn't know much about [the weapon.]." - Shyanne Roberts
Shyanne said she watched the video as well, and could tell the girl was inexperienced and could not have handled the weapon on her own.

"It seems a little bit scary," said Shyanne. "She wasn't in full control and didn't know much about [the weapon.]."

The incident in Arizona has stirred up debate surrounding children's use of firearms, with many anti-gun violence advocates arguing a child as young as 9 should never be able to shoot a fully automatic weapon.

"[Kids] should not be operating these kinds of weapons made to kill as many people as quickly as possible," said Bryan Miller of the faith-based, anti-gun violence group Heeding Gods Call.

"When you hand a child a firearm, you are forcing them to make a life and death decision that they are incapable of and never should be responsible for," said Miller.

He said the parents who put the girl in that situation and the instructor who didn't follow safety measures are both to blame for what's sure to be a traumatic event for the young girl.

"There are plenty of very safe, law-abiding gun owners, but they're not all that way. We would be mistaken to think everyone who operates a gun operates it safely," said Miller. "This guy was a shooting instructor. How reckless can you be?"

Miller and Roberts fall as far apart on the spectrum of gun control and gun rights issue as you can get, but both agreed on one point Wednesday — the 9-year-old girl should not be held responsible for what happened Monday.

"I don't blame her. It wasn't her fault," Roberts said. He mentioned earlier Wednesday that he hopes the girl gets the mental health attention moving forward to make sure she realizes that.

"She's going to be dealing with this for a long time, I hope her parents get her the counseling she's absolutely going to need," said Roberts. "I hope the counselor makes it perfectly clear she has absolutely no responsibility for this at all. It's a tragic accident."

Morons that actually know a hell of alot more about firearm handling and safety, than Linguistic Professors

[sirs]

As a general rule, smaller people — especially children — are restricted to smaller weapons that are commensurate with their size. At my range, kids who are being taught to shoot are not only limited to .22LR ammunition but also to long guns that they can get their shoulder behind. That way, if the gun pushes back, it hits something solid. This may cause bruising, sure. But it’s unlikely to be dropped or to fly upwards — or, heaven forbid, to kill somebody. When American children used to go to school with a rifle slung over their back, it was almost certainly a low-powered .22. There weren’t many Tommy Guns in American classrooms.

An Uzi, on the other hand, seems to be the worst of both worlds – especially when it is chambered in a larger caliber. Because their recoil tends to push the weapon upwards, handguns are inherently more difficult for young people to control. This is especially so when they keep firing upon a single trigger pull. Frankly, it is difficult to imagine a gun less suited to a small girl.
 ...
t does suggest gross negligence on the behalf of the range, the instructor, and the parents. I’m all for teaching children about firearms at a young age. But there is a good way to do this and a bad way to do this. We shouldn’t be giving nine-year-old girls automatic weapons.....National Review’s Charles Cooke

This isn’t a case about lax gun laws, or the need for more gun control; but I’m sure the anti-gun crowd will find some way to exploit this incident to further their agenda. Right now, our thoughts and prayers should be with Mr. Vacca, this girl, and their families.

[Xavier_Onassis]

This could have been prevented by the girls' parents and the incompetent gun instructor.

Could this happen in Japan? Could this happen in Norway? Could this happen in Switzerland?

Not bloody likely. And we know why, don't we?

When I visit Honolulu, there are always guys around Waikiki passing out flyers. One guy only was passing them out to Asian-looking men.
One guy looked at it and threw it on the sidewalk. It was the address of a gun range where you could rent heavy weapons like Uzis and AK-47 to shoot.

It was written in Japanese and Korean, but I did notice in English it said that YOU MUST BE 21 OR OLDER.

So this would not have happened in Hawaii, the hardest state to smuggle a gun into, where the gun death  rate is low. 

[sirs]

This is how all over the ball park you are, and how transparently you're trying to take a tragedy to push your ignorant anti-gun positions.

NUMEROUS things could have happened to have prevented this tragedy.  1st and formost a compotent instructor.  Last and worst, is trying to legislatively prevent access of guns to someone that the Government thinks is too young.  And no, we're not talking about infants, we're talking any child 4 and up.  As long as the instructor is compotent (read does NOT require an NRA title), there's no reason a child can't be allowed to touch a firearm

But before your usual hyperbole gets in a rut, proclaiming "yea, we need to arm all infants with uzis", the plethora of articles I've posted demonstrate that there's a safe progression for children to follow.  So, no, you don't start them out with fully automatic weapons.  You start with small caliber single shots only, and steadily transiton from there.  No laws required, as that's what most compotent instructors perform, and no need to try and emulate some other country's far more restrictive gun laws.  This is one of the rarest accidents, that can occur.  Especially when you consider the thousands of gun ranges across the country, and millions who shoot on both the ranges or in unpopulated wooded areas

So yea, you can ban all people from flying or driving, to make their accidents utterly impossible, but that's not really the point now is it.

[Xavier_Onassis]

The girls' parents were fools to permit this, the "instructor" was totally incompetent. Lastly, Burgers & Bullets was irresponsible for allowing this to happen. It took THREE TIERS of stupidity and incompetence for this to happen. But apparently three tiers of gun nuts is an inadequate number. It could be four tiers: It is unclear if two parents gave permission or only one.

[sirs]

The parents weren't fools, if they were misled.  Thousands upon thousands of parents either directly teach or indirectly supervise the teaching of their child at the hands of a professional instructor.  Nothing wrong with that, in the least

They were fools however, if they thought their daughter could handle a fully automatic uzi, having never fired anything close to one, before

But, if you want to play some kind of blame game, go right ahead.  Stomp all over the dead instructor, and the child that will have to endure this never ending nightmare for the rest of her life.  They had it coming to them, right?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Who the Hell is "Shyanne"?

This is not a one in a million accident that happens every once in a while.

It is more like an incident in which someone gets eaten by a polar bear in a zoo.  Stupidity at several levels were required.

[sirs]

Only 1 level, actually.  A firearms instructor, who did not strictly adhere to the proper 180degree rule, when someone is firing a weapon

Shyanne is the 9year old who professionally shoots firearms, including those dreaded semiautomatic rifles, and was educated on their proper safe handling, meaning "touching" firearms, starting at age 4.  Kids are sponges, especially at that age.  Ignorance is the worst thing you can teach a child

[Plane]

This is not a one in a million accident that happens every once in a while.

I would indeed say that a one in a million accident that happens every once in a while.
Is exactly what it is.

Even less than one in a million.

From the standpoint of safety if this needs to be forbidden , then dogs and horses need to be forbidden also , because accidents that maim or kill involving horses and dogs happen once in a while .

Awareness of the nature of this sort of gun  was lacking at this gun range.

I have never fired an Uzi , but I am aware of this sort of problem, the MAC-10 is notorious for being difficult to control.

I agree that small caliber long barrel guns are much more appropriate for beginners, even adult beginners.

[Plane]

http://news.msn.com/videos?videoid=e9072825-71ae-aca1-2eb7-7502ae8a7560

Call for More Regulations After Ariz. Uzi Death

No.

There are plenty of regulations.

If you can think of one that would help it probably already exists.

Probably redundantly.

This is already safer than riding a horse, what would be enough?

[sirs]

This is not a one in a million accident that happens every once in a while.

I would indeed say that a one in a million accident that happens every once in a while.
Is exactly what it is.

Even less than one in a million.

From the standpoint of safety if this needs to be forbidden , then dogs and horses need to be forbidden also , because accidents that maim or kill involving horses and dogs happen once in a while .

Awareness of the nature of this sort of gun  was lacking at this gun range.

I have never fired an Uzi , but I am aware of this sort of problem, the MAC-10 is notorious for being difficult to control.

I agree that small caliber long barrel guns are much more appropriate for beginners, even adult beginners.

Good summation, as usual Plane   

[Xavier_Onassis]

I have never heard of any nine year old kid shooting a gun coach with an Uzi. It is not one in a million, it is one in forever.

It could have been entirely avoided, and should have. I doubt that passing a law against it would have prevented it. Some nitwits like to break laws just to prove they can.

One never needs to teach a child ignorance. They are born that way. Sometimes parents have ignorant beliefs they pass on, though, many of them religious. There are a lot of women who have been circumcised that think it is proper and obligatory, just to name one example.

[sirs]

I have never heard of any nine year old kid shooting a gun coach with an Uzi. It is not one in a million, it is one in forever.

Kind making Plane's point, thank you very much

It could have been entirely avoided, and should have. I doubt that passing a law against it would have prevented it. Some nitwits like to break laws just to prove they can.

Could have should have, but didn't.  Accidents do happen, sometimes tragic ones.  No law can prevent all accidents, and you sure as hell don't pass a law that would impact millions, for an occurence that even you concede is greater than 1 in a million

[Xavier_Onassis]

This was immense negligence caused by massive stupidity on the part of the parents as well as the so-called "instructor".

At least he is no longer around to screw up again. I imagine that this might have given the little girl; parents an inkling of how dumb they were.

[sirs]

Not sure why you keep trying to place such severe negligence on the parents' part, especially without all the facts behind that claim, but you go right ahead.  I'm sure that'd make them feel so much the better