XO and friends don't want us to be able to protect ourselves! The Hell With That

[Plane]

What is the ratio of guns used to shoot burglars and gun accidents? That is the statistic that the NRA is unlikely to provide.

These figures seem useful.  I like this website, it has footnotes to tell where all the facts were found so you can get some idea of how reliable they can be considered.
 

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
* A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 0.5% of households had members who had used a gun for defense during a situation in which they thought someone "almost certainly would have been killed" if they "had not used a gun for protection." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 162,000 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."

[][][][][][][][][][][]

Based on survey data from the U.S. Department of Justice, roughly 5,340,000 violent crimes were committed in the United States during 2008. These include simple/aggravated assaults, robberies, sexual assaults, rapes, and murders. Of these, about 436,000 or 8% were committed by offenders visibly armed with a gun.

[][][][][][][][][][][]

A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.


[][][][][][][][][][][]

A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:
 
• 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
• 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"
• 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"


[][][][][][][][]

A 1997 survey of more than 18,000 prison inmates found that among those serving time for a violent crime, "30% of State offenders and 35% of Federal offenders carried a firearm when committing the crime."


[][][][][][][][][][][]
* Since the outset of the Florida right-to-carry law, the Florida murder rate has averaged 36% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 15% lower.


[][][][][][][][][][][]


* Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year

[][][][][][][][][][][]

Doing math on these figures.
Approximately 5,340,000 violent crimes in a year.
Approximately 162,000 lifesaving incidents per year using guns.


Very ,very, approximately , a life is saved by the use of a gun at the rate of once in 33 attacks.

Since less than half of us are packing at all and only a very few pack heat most of the time , this is better numbers than I was expecting.

[Plane]

From the same website.http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

In 2007, there were 613 fatal firearm accidents in the United States, constituting 0.5% of 123,706 fatal accidents that year.

[][][][][][][][][]

* In 2007, there were roughly 15,698 emergency room visits for non-fatal firearm accidents, constituting 0.05% of 27.7 million emergency room visits for non-fatal accidents that year.
 
* These emergency room visits for non-fatal firearm accidents resulted in 5,045 hospitalizations, constituting 0.4% of 1.4 million non-fatal accident hospitalizations that year.
[][][][][]

 
* A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.
 
* According to the CDC, there were about 18,498 gun-related accidents that resulted in death or an emergency room visit during 2001 (the earliest year such data is available from the CDC). This is roughly 27 times lower than the CDC's 1994 estimate for the number of times Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes.

Now are these numbers slanted?

Perhaps they are , but they all are in my opinion, so it makes a lot of difference to know how, and how much they are slanted.

I appreciate the footnotes.

[Plane]

What is the ratio of guns used to shoot burglars and gun accidents? That is the statistic that the NRA is unlikely to provide.

Hey the NRA does keep track of safety stats.

But are you really interested in reading them?

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-sheets/2013/firearm-safety-in-america-2013.aspx?s=&st=&ps=

the firearm accident death rate has fallen to an all-time low, 0.2 per 100,000 population, down 94% since the all-time high in 1904.2 Since 1930, the annual number of firearm accident deaths has decreased 81%, while the U.S. population has more than doubled and the number of firearms has quintupled. Among children, such deaths have decreased 89% since 1975. Today, the odds are more than a million to one, against a child in the U.S. dying in a firearm accident.

[Plane]

Yea, you're right plane.  In fact, I'm now seriously considering purchasing a semi-automatic rifle with scope.  Any suggestions as to what type of ammo I should focus on?  .223?, .308?, .338?  What are your thoughts about the Lapua round?

My personal preference would be 308 or 30-06.

But I don't presently have one of those, My fathers 8mm was excellent .

But I can't tell which would give you the best satisfaction, the thing to consider is what your circumstance and target will be and what you are comfortable with.

Firstly what is your target? You don't want small bore for bear nor large bore for rabbit.

Are you riding most of the way to your target? or does your gun need to be light because the targets are at the end of a hike?

  Try not to buy one that you can't test fire, the thing has to fit you too, a gun with unmanageable recoil isn't good, and one with less stopping power than needed can be cruel .

    If you are intending home defense , you might give consideration to small shotguns because the range is short and the types of ammunition available allow you to tailor the response to the situation you think is most likely. For home defense the ability or not to penetrate walls becomes very important..223, .308, 30-06 all have the ability to penetrate an attacker , the walls behind him and the door across the street, this does not rule them out entirely , it depends on your circumstance.

    Have you seen "Failure to fire"?
http://ftf-comics.com/

  This is a very raunchy and opinionated comic, the comments are often the best part.


The Lapua round?
I don't know, what is it?

[Plane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Lapua_Magnum


Hmmmm...

The Finns are always doing interesting things with rifles.

[sirs]

Thanks for the input Plane.  With your suggestions, I've narrowed my cartridge choices to the .308 vs Lapua.  It'd be largely for self defense, as I don't hunt at all.  But I want the semiautomatic for a faster return to target than my pump action 30-30, as well as a scope for more pin point practice

[Xavier_Onassis]

I think all guns should be registered in some sort of national registry.

There are far too many guns in circulation to take them away from everyone, and taking them away from only some would be unfair.

I disagree that the Constitution gives everyone the right to own any sort of firearm they wish. The words "well regulated militia" seem to have been disregarded by the Supremes. The NRA is not a militia, and it is not organized as any sort of defensive group. It is organized to take money from gun and ammo manufacturers and put it in the pockets of the officials of  of the organization.

One purpose of the Founding Fathers putting in the concept of a "well regulated militia" in the Constitution was to allow the creation of runaway slave catching patrols. During the Revolution, the British promised freedom to slaves who would rebel against their masters and support the British. Slaves escaped quite frequently. Arming the militias (slave patrols is what many of them were, but "militia" sounds ever so much better) certainly made them more effective.

[sirs]

I think all guns should be registered in some sort of national registry.

Of course you would think that.  Thank God your ilk isn't in charge

I disagree that the Constitution gives everyone the right to own any sort of firearm they wish. The words "well regulated militia" seem to have been disregarded by the Supremes.

No, the comma is what's been disregarded by folks like yourself.  Clear grammar, that you'd think a linguistic professor would grasp is that while A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Did you catch that?  There are 2 entities in play here.  The one referencing a militia, to help defend the country from enemies, foreign and domestic.  The OTHER, as referenced by the comma, is consistent with the rest of the Bill of Rights, spelling out rights for the people of this country.  The Supremes were able to grasp that, it's stunning how you haven't

Then again, there's another neat component built into the Constitution....its the amendment process, which allows folks like yourself to petition like minds across the country, that if they feel that strongly that something needs fixed, the Constitution can be amended

But the wording is clear, the punctuation clearer.  The NRA isn't required to be a militia, nor is anyone required to be a member of one.  The right is individual, as is the 1st amendment, the 4th amendment, the 5th amendment, and so on, and so on, and so on, and son on

[Plane]

I think all guns should be registered in some sort of national registry.

What would this be good for? When the police find evidence that a gun was used in the commission of a crime , what would the registry tell them?[/quote]

There are far too many guns in circulation to take them away from everyone, and taking them away from only some would be unfair.

[/quote] Yes , I think so too.  Even moreso the day after an incomplete gun roundup the balance of power on the street would be tilted strongly in favor of those who did not co-operate.

I disagree that the Constitution gives everyone the right to own any sort of firearm they wish. The words "well regulated militia" seem to have been disregarded by the Supremes. The NRA is not a militia, and it is not organized as any sort of defensive group. It is organized to take money from gun and ammo manufacturers and put it in the pockets of the officials of  of the organization.

One purpose of the Founding Fathers putting in the concept of a "well regulated militia" in the Constitution was to allow the creation of runaway slave catching patrols. During the Revolution, the British promised freedom to slaves who would rebel against their masters and support the British. Slaves escaped quite frequently. Arming the militias (slave patrols is what many of them were, but "militia" sounds ever so much better) certainly made them more effective.

   I think that connecting the word "militia " to slave catchers is a red herring, in those days slave catchers were called slave catchers and half of the people who composed the constitution were abolitionist.
 
   And the Indians are not a common threat anymore.

   Are you trying to say that militias are not a good idea anymore?

[Plane]

Thanks for the input Plane.  With your suggestions, I've narrowed my cartridge choices to the .308 vs Lapua.  It'd be largely for self defense, as I don't hunt at all.  But I want the semiautomatic for a faster return to target than my pump action 30-30, as well as a scope for more pin point practice

   In combat against snipers this would be the thing, but most of the desperate situations in the present are occurring indoors.
    Everything depends on what you think is the most likely, or worst that is reasonably possible .

[Xavier_Onassis]

Guns are used to kill people. Many are designed fore only that purpose. Every car is registered, and there are no cars designed to kill people.
Registering guns would surely be helpful in tracking down murderers. It is a no-brainer.
But then the NRA is more interested in hawking guns and ammo. The Stupid Supremes are like bat guano for them.

[Plane]

Registering guns would surely be helpful in tracking down murderers.

I do not see how.

Why would it be helpful ?


Is it such a no brainer that it cannot be elucidated?

[sirs]

Guns are used to kill people. Many are designed fore only that purpose. Every car is registered, and there are no cars designed to kill people.

Guns are a tool, that can be used to defend, deter, or if necessary provide lethal force.  Nor is there a Constitutional right to a chevy, not to mention deaths due to cars far outweigh deaths due to guns.  How has registration prevented those deaths?

The Stupid Supremes are like bat guano for them.

And apparently there are stupid lingustic professors who can't grasp simple grammar   

[Xavier_Onassis]

Car registrations have indeed saved lives, as they have made it possible for manufactures to inform second and third owners that defective parts that would cause fatal accidents and injuries are available for replacement.

I bet you think that the constitution allows children to own guns, because they are citizens.
Guns should be registered. It would make it necessary to report thefts of guns, which could then be put in a database of stolen weapons.
Cars are traceable by license plate and VIN numbers. Guns should be at least as traceable.

[sirs]

And you would lose that bet.  You think Children should be allowed to vote??  That's the same analogy