Author Topic: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.  (Read 4788 times)

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Plane

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Re: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2014, 10:47:28 PM »
......and in the U.S. we spend more money per pupil than pretty much every other country on the globe


  If you know that is a fact I would like to see more about it.

   Got links?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2014, 10:51:39 PM »
Are you unable to use Google?

As I recall, a years or so ago we had a debate lasting several months in which Michael T provided extensive links to everything.

If you want to continue blaming the teachers and their unions for students that cannot perform, be my guest.
Do you blame a teachers union for your inability to spell English?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2014, 10:58:46 PM »
Are you unable to use Google?

As I recall, a years or so ago we had a debate lasting several months in which Michael T provided extensive links to everything.

If you want to continue blaming the teachers and their unions for students that cannot perform, be my guest.
Do you blame a teachers union for your inability to spell English?


  I am sorry I should have made it more clear that I was addressing this to Sirs.

   He is talking as though he has already found something.

     I use google all the time , but I might not find what sirs is talking about that way , because it would show up with a haystack of related stuff.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2014, 11:13:06 PM »
sirs likes to ask dumb questions, but he seems to possess few answers. Much of what he calls "priceless" tends to be unworthy of mention.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2014, 01:04:39 AM »
More projection I see.  Tsk tsk
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2014, 01:30:37 AM »
You really like that word, don't you, sirs?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2014, 02:43:23 AM »
I don't "like" any words.  I use words that are appropriate, however
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2014, 02:55:37 AM »
If you want to continue blaming the teachers and their unions for students that cannot perform, be my guest.
Do you blame a teachers union for your inability to spell English?


  I am sorry I should have made it more clear that I was addressing this to Sirs.

   He is talking as though he has already found something
.

Unlike those who merely wish to opine & ridicule, while managing to never back up anything they claim, we have multiple sources that back up the fact that the U.S. spends far more per-pupil on education, than retty much everyone else

CBS has this

The National Center for Educational Statistics backs that up

The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development backs that up

Business Insider has us near the top

And so on, and so on, and so on.  Point being, all we keep hearing is that public schools "need more money".  Or this failing program needs more money.  Or that failing government organization needs more money.  It's always more money, and poof....that's gonna fix the problem.  And when it doesn't its because....need more money.  Notice the pattern?

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2014, 09:00:34 AM »
That would be because many school districts do, in fact, need more money.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2014, 10:19:09 AM »
Yea, the ones that keep offloading their worse teachers, into those districts, instead if firing them.  Point being we already spend more per pupil than nearly every other nation, and yet there you are still decrying that we need more money........because that's worked so well in the past    ::)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 10:35:01 AM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2014, 11:30:11 AM »
More money HAS worked quite well in many, many communities. It has not worked well everywhere.
The United States does not have a national school system with national standards. It has thousands of school systems. In most of them, unions have done more good than harm. Rightwingers think that pointing out dumb shit that goes on in DC and NYC or used to means that the same stuff goes on everywhere. Pat Torniullo, who used to be the leader of the AFT here in Miami, was corrupt and generally useless at leading teachers. I had one chance to vote for or against him when I was a permanent sub for three months, and I voted against him, because he was responsible in part for the absurd system that the Miami Schools had for requiring records. I was required to keep records of student performance in a certain complicated order. When I asked to see the records I had submitted to check on something, I was told they had been destroyed, which they did unannounced with all records two weeks before the end of classes. I resented having to spend hours sorting stuff when it could not possibly serve any purpose to anyone. I heard this had been instituted according to some deal that Tornillo had negotiated, and no one could tell me why. Tornillo was caught in some scandal three years after that and they tell me that schools have improved. At least the rankings of schools according to the state guidelines have improved.

All school problems must be dealt with on a district to district basis, perhaps they do spend too much money in a few places. I have never seen any examples of that in the four districts where I taught. To make some blanket statement like "spending more has not improved schools, so we should not pay more money" is simplistic and in no way could possibly apply to every school district. Reactionaries hate teachers because teachers vote Democratic mostly and teachers unions are among the best at organizing get out the vote drives. Reactionaries hate get out the vote drives, because it means they lose elections, which is to the advantage of most of the citizens of this country. Democrats are occasionally corrupt. Republicans are nearly all suckups who will follow the desires of the fatcats who have purchased them.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2014, 11:57:22 AM »
JUST more money has not worked for our Public Education system.  HISTORY has demonstrated that....in particular, recent history. 

So no, you don't have any standing to proclaim a broadbrush need for more money, when we already spend more per pupil than nearly every other country, while our graduation rates & test scores remain abysmal compared to other countries that spend far less
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 01:11:48 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2014, 02:38:26 PM »
There is no American Public Education System. There never has been.

There are thousands of school districts. Some do well, others do not.

You insist on simplistic blather because you are a simpleton.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2014, 04:08:34 PM »
Nor have I ever claimed there was an "American Public Education System".  We do have a Public Education system, supported by our tax dollars, and highly regulated by the Dept of Education

I realize to folks like yourself, who just "know better" than the rest of us simpletons, cloaking your intentions in rhetorical rabble, and proclaim how others just aren't nuanced to understand the complexities of whatever issue it is you can't bothered to actually support with any credible facts.  Your problem is, you only fool yourself into beliving others are too dumb to grasp both the nuance and the intentions.  FACT is we spend more $$$ per pupil than pretty much every other country on the globe.  And if money alone was the cure all to so many of these social ailments, we'd have the greatest education results on the globe.  The inconvenient truth however, is its FAR from it.

And the gall to think that to "fix" this education debacle is simply MORE MONEY, is one even a simpleton would thow back in your face, given the track record of that effort already employed to this point
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: There is a lot of stuff far more important than guns.
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2014, 04:41:16 PM »
The Dept opf Education only tells schools that if they want this grant or that one, they have to do this or that. They don't have to do anything. Compared with France ort Denmark or Finland, the Dept of Education has no significant power. Most state governments have a lot more power than the D of E.

There is no Public Education System. There are thousands of them. And some of them need more money.
Are you going to tell me that NONE of them need more money?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."