Blacks Are Safer Around Whites Than Each Other!

[Xavier_Onassis]

The thing is, the government in general and you in particular, have no control over the choices that people make, and once the choices are made, allowing people to starve as bad examples is not possible and would not work if it were. Deprived people do desperate things: not all of them just crawl away, wither and die, per leaving a message to future generations that their errant ways not be imitated.

Yeah, sure, it would be nice if all marriages were perfect and all parents were caring and attentive and all children were born to loving parents who graduated from school. But that is not the case and that will never be the case.

There will always be fatherless children, especially in a country where war is endemic like the USA and where the main solution for aberrant behavior, much of which is called by mental illness, it to throw people, most of whom are men, in jail for long sentences. 

For three years I taught college courses in a state prison. It paid a third of the already low salary that my regular classes paid, and Dade Correctional was 40 miles through heavy traffic from the main campus. It was npot a bad drive, because I carpooled with an Accounting Prof who had all sorts of aming tales.  We graduated about 150 students with BA degrees in that time, and then the program was defunded by the idiotic Republicans in the FL State Legislature, because some bozo said that since we did not provide college education for law-abiding Floridians, we should not provide it for convicts, either.  Of course, the main goal of the program was to make employable, tax paying citizens of a rather small minority of convicts who had finished HS or a GED and had accumulated the good conduct points to voluntarily enroll in the program.

The State was too cheap to do any follow ups on recidivism, but the woman who was in charge of the program told me that nearly all the graduates found jobs after leaving DCI.

[sirs]

Oh contraire, Government, very much is trying to control the choices one makes.

I do not want or even desire control of what another person does.  I'll leave that to know-it-all liberals who think their way is the only way.  The issue is that Government "makes no money".  They do nothing but take money, via fines, taxes, mandates, etc.  They create nothing...except a growing scope of folks, too poor to function on their own, so in "need of Government", all the while enabling, even rewarding behavior that reinforces bad behavior and poor judgement, making them all the more poverty riddled, and beholden to Government.

I do not care, 1 whit what another person does.....so long as it doesn't impact my ability to take care of myself and my family.  That's what rights are all about.  The right to do whatever the frell you want to do,...... SO LONG THAT IT DOESN'T IMPACT THE RIGHTS OF ANOTHER.  THAT's when we're going to have a problem.  When women decide to have children, that they KNOW they can't financially support, that's a direct and increased cost to tax payers, subsidizing their bad judgement, pushed by you and your ilk.  And that's why your rationalizions for such poor judgement and bad behavior are both wreckless & wholly irresponsible....not just to tax payers, but the poverty that the mother & child are going to be saddled with

[Xavier_Onassis]

A hundred years ago, there were far more people who could not feed their children. What happened was the children starved, of course. That is why life expectancy today is over 70 and then it was around 45.

[Plane]

For three years I taught college courses in a state prison. ..........

Bravo!

Even if the success rate were very low , the success of each one that became a supporter of society rather than a threat or ward to the state would be a success multiplied over again by each year he was not incarcerated, the success rate you mentioned must surely have paid back the cost after a very few years.

I hope that something of this sort can be tried again.

[Plane]

The thing is, the government in general and you in particular, have no control over the choices that people make, and once the choices are made, ................

  I consider the government and society to be quite different things, even if related.

   But both the government and society have an interest in individual good behavior and rationality and education and forming families.

     What is the most effective encouragement for good choices you know ?

      What agency should be responsible for this encouragement?

         When does punishment become appropriate ?

            If a person chooses so badly that he is genuinely wasting the resources of the society or the taxes of the state, does it reach a point of un-supportability? Ever?

[Plane]

..............I do not care, 1 whit what another person does.....so long as it doesn't impact my ability to take care of myself and my family.  That's what rights are all about.  The right to do whatever the frell you want to do,...... SO LONG THAT IT DOESN'T IMPACT THE RIGHTS OF ANOTHER.  THAT's when we're going to have a problem.  When women decide to have children, that they KNOW they can't financially support,...............

   Would you make exception for the child's sake?
   There does exist a "cycle of poverty" and there needs to be a way for most of the people in it to escape it.

      There is probably not a way to rescue them all, but anything less than most makes the cycle vicious.

[Plane]

A hundred years ago, there were far more people who could not feed their children. What happened was the children starved, of course. That is why life expectancy today is over 70 and then it was around 45.

   Thank you Luther Burbank and John Deer.
    Food has become much more available and relatively cheap, not directly due to the government, but directly due to improvements in farming.

[sirs]

A hundred years ago, there were far more people who could not feed their children. What happened was the children starved, of course. That is why life expectancy today is over 70 and then it was around 45.

There is a laundry list of reasons we have a higher life expectancy now compared to 100years ago...and bigger government likely doesn't even make the top 10.  What does top the list is medical advances, ironically much of it spearheaded by this country, and entrepreneurship, via our free market system.  Also ranking up there, though very closely related, is a better grasp of those things that are healthy for us, vs those things that are not so much.  The fact we've become so much wealthier as a country, again do in large part to our free market system, has also allowed an exponential level of charity to flourish. 

Our founders formed a Government that had a very simple function....Protect its citizens from enemies, foreign & domestic, protect its citizens rights, and allow as much freedom as possible, without infringing on other people's rights.  It's all laid out quite clearly in our rule book, referred to as the Constitution.  And even rules on how to change the rules, if subsequent generations believe the Constitution has somehow become outdated

[sirs]

..............I do not care, 1 whit what another person does.....so long as it doesn't impact my ability to take care of myself and my family.  That's what rights are all about.  The right to do whatever the frell you want to do,...... SO LONG THAT IT DOESN'T IMPACT THE RIGHTS OF ANOTHER.  THAT's when we're going to have a problem.  When women decide to have children, that they KNOW they can't financially support,...............

   Would you make exception for the child's sake?

We already do....in spades.  Please don't employ the tactic that xo uses, in trying to apply some extreme position, I never actually espoused.  I'm not advocating that all aide be completely cut.  There are far too many that the left has already pulled into their sewer of never ending poverty and umbilical cord to Government.  First and foremost though, we can't keep rewarding such behavior with an endless supply of tax payer subsidies & perks.   So, I'm open to suggestions, so long as its not more of the same

And I'm being serious here.....Black America needs to have a new MLK....one who epitomizes the original, proclaiming how people should be judged by the contect of their character and not the color of their skin.  And that everyone has the responsibility of themselves.  Every individual treated the same, regardless of color.  Every individual responsible for their actions

[Xavier_Onassis]

Do you actually think you are rewarding a woman for her loose morals by refusing to feed her children? 

Here is the situation: a poor woman, who has never had much love for any person in her life, has a child because at least there will be someone who loves her, or at least that is what she believes. She has not thought about how she is going to feed the child. Perhaps she changed her mind after getting pregnant, but she was prevented from getting an abortion, because she did not have the money or because a bunch of obsessed voters intruded on her desires by passing some law against it.

In any case, there she is, poor and with a baby. What are the options that society has to address this?

(1) Food and aid for medical attention and diapers can be denied her by the government, which practicing "tough love" figures that she will either manage to pull through without the help of the government and be a good example, or will simply starve , thereby serving as a bad example, a lesson for other women to notice and not follow. Perhaps she can try to sell the baby, and then she gets arrested and alas, the taxpayers will have to provide food and a nice cell for her. The going rate is around $30K per year. Or maybe she is really good at begging.
 
(2) The government can provide some sort of aid for her. Too bad, since this will serve as a bad example. Liberals favor this, so it has to be just awful.

(3) The government can take the baby away from her and raise it in some sort of foster home. Some enlightened Southern states also gave the woman a tubal ligation, so she won't make the same mistake twice. But I think the Supreme Court outlawed this. Something about personal rights.

[sirs]

Do you actually think you are rewarding a woman for her loose morals by refusing to feed her children? 

See, this is the garbage I was referring to.....the notion that I'd want to deny her & her children the ability eat.  That we need to cut all aide.      Your ignorance and deflection efforts hold no bounds.  Here's the RESPONSIBLE situation....If there's some woman who doesn't perceive love in her life, there's a local animal shelter where there are too numerous of dogs & cats just begging to love someone......and it doesn't impact that tax payer, in any way

[Xavier_Onassis]

So, what are you talking about?  Take away her kid and give her a puppy?

Or maybe a kittycat.

[sirs]

I'm talking about personal responsibility vs rewarding piss poor judgement.  No where in there is some evil plot to deny her and her child the ability to eat   

[Christians4LessGvt]

so many people were starving in the United States before the 1970's!
ha ha...what a freaking joke
more Leftist garbage

speaking of leftist garbage
i had to go to the hospital emergency room last night
and there were 20 people in there waiting
at least 15 of the 20 people were "si senors" with ninos/rug rats
whose paying for all this crap?
i was paying for mine....but almost all the others...were living off the leftist boowhoo fanatsy world
and thats one hospital in one city
so the left weeps about the poor little illegals
while American citizens get screwed out of better hospital care and it costs billions

[Xavier_Onassis]

Okay, but if you are not into starvation, will you be helping out with the rent or will they have to live in a refrigerator box or perhaps a car?

The thing is, that even if people make bad decisions, they will always need food and shelter. If you expect the child to go to school and the mother to work, then she will have to do something about day care, since the work day is longer than the school day and does not cover the same hours.

In Scandinavian countries, there are plenty of unmarried women with children, and they do not become dependent for generations on the government. There is no excuse for poverty and malnutrition in this country. We have more resources than Finland or Sweden and most of the US is not frozen half the year. The reason for poverty in the US is an unequal distribution of wealth. Of all the EU countries, only Portugal is more unequal than the US. And this problem is getting worse. When I was 18, you could get a job and earn enough to get through college. I know because I did this. Now this is impossible. It is not impossible because this country is poorer or has fewer resources, either.