Author Topic: Independent analysis: Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help  (Read 1475 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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Independent analysis finds Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help three-quarters of the middle class or two-thirds of the poor Nonpartisan Tax Policy Center found $1.5 trillion in new taxes proposed through 2025 will help few the president says he's targeting. About a quarter of families making between $50,000 and $75,000 a year would get a tax cut, averaging $545; 70 per cent would see no change. Only one-third of the bottom bottom 20 percent of earners would get tax cuts, averaging $617; the rest would see little or no change.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2936949/Obamas-tax-cuts-target-parents-families-2-incomes.html
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Plane

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Re: Independent analysis: Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2015, 09:56:05 PM »


....-incomes.html


   How does it work to cut taxes on the poor , when the main tax the poor pay is the uncuttable Social Security?

    Aren't almost half of us paying little or no income tax already?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Independent analysis: Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2015, 10:42:04 PM »
If the top 1% owns as much as the other 99%, why should they NOT pay most of the taxes?  They are the mones who are receiving most of the benefits of living here.
If they are not taxed, the result will be that 99% will belong to the top ½ %
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Independent analysis: Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2015, 02:12:41 PM »
If the top 1% owns as much as the other 99%, why should they NOT pay most of the taxes?  They are the mones who are receiving most of the benefits of living here.
If they are not taxed, the result will be that 99% will belong to the top ½ %

Why would this be a bad result?

I think recent history proves taxation to be ineffective as a means of income redistribution, our top 5% pay about half of all our taxes , and we are not happy yet because they are still gaining ground?

    What if the result of taking all restraint off of earning and investing were full employment and the complete demise of poverty, at the cost of having more trillionaires running loose.

   Would you be willing to pay the price of having more wealthy , in order to eradicate poverty?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Independent analysis: Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2015, 02:19:44 PM »
I would be willing to tax the wealthiest in order to eliminate poverty. That is how it has been done in Europe.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

kimba1

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Re: Independent analysis: Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2015, 02:32:06 PM »
I think i would but the problem is ilife does not work that way. I'll use family as an example . A family only job is the well being of it's own self and as such would be very minimul in helping the community and as time goes by crime goes up and the family leaves for safer places .

Businesses is like that it only focus on making a profit but does little in helping the economy and eventually stuggle to find people to but thier stuff.

What i'm getting at is taxes has minimul baring on this issue and as such not really surprise it has no effect

P.s. I've been to europe. Poverty is alot more severe than here and do not forgot cost of living is higher but large margin compared to here

Plane

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Re: Independent analysis: Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2015, 02:33:09 PM »
I would be willing to tax the wealthiest in order to eliminate poverty. That is how it has been done in Europe.


I really think this is a fallacy.

The opposite strategy works better.

If the government runs light and is used only to curb cheats, then the government does not need to be expensive to the society.

Then the society can use individual energy and ambition as an engine to produce wealth, which happens even in spite of some cheats getting away.

Government as a handicapper putting hooks into the wealthy to the maximum possible runs towards a situation in which it is just not worthwhile to work.

I really think liberals are refusing to experiment , have little imagination and are stuck on very old ideas. Thus they would raise taxes even if the result were increases in poverty.

sirs

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Re: Independent analysis: Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2015, 02:36:53 PM »
I would be willing to tax the wealthiest in order to eliminate poverty. That is how it has been done in Europe.

So nice to be able to spend other people's money.  You of course, would be exempt from such an increase, correct?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Independent analysis: Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2015, 02:38:11 PM »
P.s. I've been to europe. Poverty is alot more severe than here and do not forgot cost of living is higher but large margin compared to here

  How recently?

I haven't been to Europe since 82.

I liked Spain and Italy and I would like to explore some others , but I was not moved to stay there.

I don't think the situation now is like it was in the late seventies . I had a Belgian father introduce me to his young children as the first American they ever met, they were incredulous , I didn't seem tall enough to them to qualify as an American.

sirs

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Re: Independent analysis: Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2015, 02:46:04 PM »
P.s. I've been to europe. Poverty is alot more severe than here and do not forgot cost of living is higher but large margin compared to here

But.....weren't we just told that the socialist policies in Europe, of much higher taxes on "the rich" is reducing poverty.....to near elimination even??     :-\
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Independent analysis: Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2015, 02:47:01 PM »
Europe is over 30 countries.

If the PERCENTAGE of the population that owns half the country decreases, that means that that small number of people is taking an even larger share of the total pie.

I certainly am not in even the top 30% of the population, and since I have retired, the value of my assets has been pretty much constant, not fluctuating more than 3% one way or the other, so I am neither a part of the problem nor the solution. And I have no complaints about paying my taxes, since I did not pay them when I earned the money, as it went into a tax shelter. 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Independent analysis: Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2015, 02:52:05 PM »
Again, Europe is a large number of countries. Italy is not Denmark. Portugal is not Norway.  Greece is not Sweden.

And yes, poverty has largely been eliminated in the European nations that I mentioned, and it has been done by taxing the wealthiest to provide for the society as a whole. No one pays for healthcare in Scandinavia. No one pays for education at state schools. Everyone gets paid vacations, maternity leave and vacations. If you are out of work, the government unemployment are adequate enough that very few lose their homes.

All this information is available online.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Independent analysis: Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2015, 03:04:11 PM »
Quote
The study from social policy consultants COMPAS shows that 8.7 million French people live below the poverty line, which in a nation of 66 million, represents around 14 percent of the population.

The northern city of Roubaix, near the border with Belgium topped the list with 45 percent of its residents living below the poverty line.
http://www.thelocal.fr/20140128/frances-rich-and-poor-where-do-they-live

To be considered to be living in poverty an individual must survive on €977 per month, after taxes and including government subsidies. That sum is 60 percent of the national average income. In 2010 17.1 percent of the population of the United Kingdom were officially living in poverty. In the United States 16 percent of the country were living under the poverty line in 2012 - which represents 47 million people.


   This makes it seem like France is ahead of the USA in having 2% less population below the poverty line.

    I don't know how fairly that line is drawn.

kimba1

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Re: Independent analysis: Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2015, 03:07:58 PM »
Last year in germany.  The folks i'm talking about kinda look like gypsy . So maybe its a racial thing. So poverty is gone because those folks would not be added to the data.

Kinda like unemployment in the u.s.


From what i understand about france is they tend to section off undesirable so maybe those area would not be on data on poverty. Remember france is considered better than america but still we get french immigrants wishing to live here to annoy us .

Plane

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Re: Independent analysis: Obama's "middle-class" tax cuts won't help
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2015, 04:10:37 PM »
   Once when I was in Spain I was swarmed by Gypsy children, reached for my wallet and shook hands with three of them.

    I can't be sure , but I think these Gypsys were not Spanish, there are some who travel internationally and these seemed to be of that sort.

      The reputation of Gypsys for theft is at least partly deserved , but they are also a repressed minority with reduced income levels and difficulty getting education over most of the area where they are found. So whether their economic plight spawns their reputation for petty crime  or whether vice versa is a chicken and egg question.