Author Topic: Can we expect comparable commentary?  (Read 11872 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Can we expect comparable commentary?
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2007, 04:55:50 PM »
I don't see the tax issue as revolving around greed. I see it revolving around fairness and the proper role of the federal government.
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Since Juniorbush was 'selected', the US has become a less equitable society: the rich have gotten richer, and the poor have gotten poorer, partly because of the repeal of the inheritence and other taxes.
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I don't see the current administration as incompetent. I see them as dealing with national issues in good faith and with good effort.

They have started a huge, unwinnable war and poured billions into it with no success.
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And i don't think the war in Iraq is stupid, nor do i consider myself stupid for supporting it. It makes perfect sense to for us to expend energy in trying to help build a more stable middle east.

But it IS stupid. The Middle East is far LESS stable than previously. Now no one runs Iraq; no one controls Afghanistan. Israel is not any safer, either. The war was a waste of soldiers' lives and vast amounts of money, and was waged incompetently. No one denies that more Iraqis die on a daily, weekly, monthly or yearly basis than under Saddam Hussein.

Afghanistan was invaded and its government deposed, but bin Laden is still at large, and Al Qaeda has invaded Iraq, which it did not previously use as any sort of base.

The thing is, you are just dead WRONG.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Can we expect comparable commentary?
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2007, 05:16:45 PM »
I don't see the tax issue as revolving around greed. I see it revolving around fairness and the proper role of the federal government.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Since Juniorbush was 'selected', the US has become a less equitable society: the rich have gotten richer, and the poor have gotten poorer, partly because of the repeal of the inheritence and other taxes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't see the current administration as incompetent. I see them as dealing with national issues in good faith and with good effort.

They have started a huge, unwinnable war and poured billions into it with no success.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

And i don't think the war in Iraq is stupid, nor do i consider myself stupid for supporting it. It makes perfect sense to for us to expend energy in trying to help build a more stable middle east.

But it IS stupid. The Middle East is far LESS stable than previously. Now no one runs Iraq; no one controls Afghanistan. Israel is not any safer, either. The war was a waste of soldiers' lives and vast amounts of money, and was waged incompetently. No one denies that more Iraqis die on a daily, weekly, monthly or yearly basis than under Saddam Hussein.

Afghanistan was invaded and its government deposed, but bin Laden is still at large, and Al Qaeda has invaded Iraq, which it did not previously use as any sort of base.

The thing is, you are just dead WRONG.




Why do you think that the por have gotten poorer?

I don't think you are right about that.

BT

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Re: Can we expect comparable commentary?
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2007, 07:31:30 PM »
Quote
the rich have gotten richer, and the poor have gotten poorer,

You say that like it is a bad thing.


Mucho

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Re: Can we expect comparable commentary?
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2007, 07:33:17 PM »
-------------------------




Quote
Why do you think that the por have gotten poorer?

I don't think you are right about that.
He most certainly is right. The fact that you dont agree shows the level of denial all you RWers suffer.

ZNet | Activism

Poverty Increases as Incomes Decline Under President Bush

by Gene C. Gerard; September 19, 2005
The day after Hurricane Katrina hit, exposing much of the public to the tragic conditions of poverty in America, the Census Bureau quietly released its annual report entitled, “Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States.” In some respects, it provided a demonstrable backdrop to the pockets of poverty common to New Orleans and other cities. It also explained why, despite President Bush’s assertion last month that, “Americans have more money in their pockets,” many people aren’t faring as well as they once did.

The report indicates that in 2004 there was no increase in average annual household incomes for black, white, or Hispanic families. In fact, this marks the first time since the Census Bureau began keeping records that household incomes failed to increase for five consecutive years. Since President Bush took office, the average annual household family income has declined by $2,572, approximately 4.8 percent.

Black families had the lowest average income last year, at $30,134. By comparison, the average income for white families was $48,977. The average pretax family income for all racial groups combined was $44,389, which is the lowest it has been since 1997. The South had the lowest average family income in 2004.

Interestingly enough, as the Economic Policy Institute notes in their analysis of the Census Bureau’s report, not all families did poorly last year. Although the portion of the total national income going to the bottom 60 percent of families did not increase last year, the portion going to the wealthiest five percent of families rose by 0.4 percent. And while the average inflation-adjusted family income of middle-class Americans declined by 0.7 percent in 2004, the wealthiest five percent of families enjoyed a 1.7 percent increase.

Earnings also declined last year. This is despite the fact that Americans are working harder. Since 2000, worker output per hour has increased by 15 percent. Yet for men working full-time, their annual incomes declined 2.3 percent in 2004, down to an average of $40,798. This decrease was the largest one-year decline in 14 years for men. Women saw their earnings decrease by 1 percent, with an average income of $31,223, the largest one-year decline for women in nine years.

Women earned only 77 cents for every dollar earned by men last year. Clearly, the gender gap remains real and pervasive. In all major industry sectors, women earned less than men. In the management of companies, women earned 54 cents for every dollar earned by men; 57 cents in finance and industry; and 60 cents in scientific and technical services.

Not surprisingly, the report revealed that poverty increased last year. There were 37 million (12.7 percent) people living in poverty, an increase of 1.1 million people since 2003. This was the fourth consecutive year in which poverty has increased. In fact, since President Bush took office, 5.4 million more people, including 1.4 million children, have found themselves living in poverty.
There were 7.9 million families living below the poverty level in 2004, an increase of 300,000 families since 2003.

The average income last year for a poverty-stricken family of four was $19,307; for a family of three it was $15,067, and for a couple it was $12,334. The poverty rate increased for people 18 to 64 last year by 0.5 percent. The South experienced the highest poverty rate of all regions.

The Census Bureau report also demonstrated that health insurance coverage remains elusive for many Americans. Those covered by employer-sponsored health insurance declined from 60.4 percent in 2003 to 59.8 percent in 2004. Approximately 800,000 more workers found themselves without health insurance last year. The percentage of people covered by governmental health programs in 2004 rose to 27.2 percent, in part because as poverty increased, more Americans were forced to seek coverage through Medicaid. The percentage of the public with Medicaid coverage rose by 0.5 percent in 2004.

Last year was the fourth consecutive year in which employer-sponsored health insurance coverage declined. A total of 45.8 million Americans are now without health insurance. The uninsured rate in 2004 was 11.3 percent for whites, 19.7 percent for blacks, and 32.7 percent for Hispanics. Not surprisingly, the South had the highest portion of the uninsured population, at 18.3 percent.

Although we haven’t heard President Bush say it much lately, he came into office as a self-professed “compassionate conservative.” But as the report by the Census Bureau suggests, which was sadly symbolized by the plight of many poor residents of New Orleans, the country hasn’t seen much of that compassion in the last five years. Many Americans are working harder, earning less, and without the benefit of health insurance. It’s easy to understand why the report was released a day after the largest natural disaster  in a century, when much of the country was distracted.

http://www.zmag.org/content/print_article.cfm?itemID=8767&sectionID=1


 

Plane

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Re: Can we expect comparable commentary?
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2007, 07:36:22 PM »

I did not say that there were no poor , and I do not see this article containing any evidence that the poor are worse off than an earlyer period.

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Quote
Why do you think that the por have gotten poorer?

I don't think you are right about that.
He most certainly is right. The fact that you dont agree shows the level of denial all you RWers suffer.

ZNet | Activism

Poverty Increases as Incomes Decline Under President Bush

by Gene C. Gerard; September 19, 2005
The day after Hurricane Katrina hit, exposing much of the public to the tragic conditions of poverty in America, the Census Bureau quietly released its annual report entitled, “Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States.” In some respects, it provided a demonstrable backdrop to the pockets of poverty common to New Orleans and other cities. It also explained why, despite President Bush’s assertion last month that, “Americans have more money in their pockets,” many people aren’t faring as well as they once did.

The report indicates that in 2004 there was no increase in average annual household incomes for black, white, or Hispanic families. In fact, this marks the first time since the Census Bureau began keeping records that household incomes failed to increase for five consecutive years. Since President Bush took office, the average annual household family income has declined by $2,572, approximately 4.8 percent.

Black families had the lowest average income last year, at $30,134. By comparison, the average income for white families was $48,977. The average pretax family income for all racial groups combined was $44,389, which is the lowest it has been since 1997. The South had the lowest average family income in 2004.

Interestingly enough, as the Economic Policy Institute notes in their analysis of the Census Bureau’s report, not all families did poorly last year. Although the portion of the total national income going to the bottom 60 percent of families did not increase last year, the portion going to the wealthiest five percent of families rose by 0.4 percent. And while the average inflation-adjusted family income of middle-class Americans declined by 0.7 percent in 2004, the wealthiest five percent of families enjoyed a 1.7 percent increase.

Earnings also declined last year. This is despite the fact that Americans are working harder. Since 2000, worker output per hour has increased by 15 percent. Yet for men working full-time, their annual incomes declined 2.3 percent in 2004, down to an average of $40,798. This decrease was the largest one-year decline in 14 years for men. Women saw their earnings decrease by 1 percent, with an average income of $31,223, the largest one-year decline for women in nine years.

Women earned only 77 cents for every dollar earned by men last year. Clearly, the gender gap remains real and pervasive. In all major industry sectors, women earned less than men. In the management of companies, women earned 54 cents for every dollar earned by men; 57 cents in finance and industry; and 60 cents in scientific and technical services.

Not surprisingly, the report revealed that poverty increased last year. There were 37 million (12.7 percent) people living in poverty, an increase of 1.1 million people since 2003. This was the fourth consecutive year in which poverty has increased. In fact, since President Bush took office, 5.4 million more people, including 1.4 million children, have found themselves living in poverty.
There were 7.9 million families living below the poverty level in 2004, an increase of 300,000 families since 2003.

The average income last year for a poverty-stricken family of four was $19,307; for a family of three it was $15,067, and for a couple it was $12,334. The poverty rate increased for people 18 to 64 last year by 0.5 percent. The South experienced the highest poverty rate of all regions.

The Census Bureau report also demonstrated that health insurance coverage remains elusive for many Americans. Those covered by employer-sponsored health insurance declined from 60.4 percent in 2003 to 59.8 percent in 2004. Approximately 800,000 more workers found themselves without health insurance last year. The percentage of people covered by governmental health programs in 2004 rose to 27.2 percent, in part because as poverty increased, more Americans were forced to seek coverage through Medicaid. The percentage of the public with Medicaid coverage rose by 0.5 percent in 2004.

Last year was the fourth consecutive year in which employer-sponsored health insurance coverage declined. A total of 45.8 million Americans are now without health insurance. The uninsured rate in 2004 was 11.3 percent for whites, 19.7 percent for blacks, and 32.7 percent for Hispanics. Not surprisingly, the South had the highest portion of the uninsured population, at 18.3 percent.

Although we haven’t heard President Bush say it much lately, he came into office as a self-professed “compassionate conservative.” But as the report by the Census Bureau suggests, which was sadly symbolized by the plight of many poor residents of New Orleans, the country hasn’t seen much of that compassion in the last five years. Many Americans are working harder, earning less, and without the benefit of health insurance. It’s easy to understand why the report was released a day after the largest natural disaster  in a century, when much of the country was distracted.

http://www.zmag.org/content/print_article.cfm?itemID=8767&sectionID=1


 

Mucho

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Re: Can we expect comparable commentary?
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2007, 08:55:23 PM »
You really only see what you want to , dont you?

Earnings also declined last year. This is despite the fact that Americans are working harder. Since 2000, worker output per hour has increased by 15 percent. Yet for men working full-time, their annual incomes declined 2.3 percent in 2004, down to an average of $40,798. This decrease was the largest one-year decline in 14 years for men. Women saw their earnings decrease by 1 percent, with an average income of $31,223, the largest one-year decline for women in nine years.

Women earned only 77 cents for every dollar earned by men last year. Clearly, the gender gap remains real and pervasive. In all major industry sectors, women earned less than men. In the management of companies, women earned 54 cents for every dollar earned by men; 57 cents in finance and industry; and 60 cents in scientific and technical services.

Not surprisingly, the report revealed that poverty increased last year. There were 37 million (12.7 percent) people living in poverty, an increase of 1.1 million people since 2003. This was the fourth consecutive year in which poverty has increased. In fact, since President Bush took office, 5.4 million more people, including 1.4 million children, have found themselves living in poverty.
There were 7.9 million families living below the poverty level in 2004, an increase of 300,000 families since 2003.

The average income last year for a poverty-stricken family of four was $19,307; for a family of three it was $15,067, and for a couple it was $12,334. The poverty rate increased for people 18 to 64 last year by 0.5 percent. The South experienced the highest poverty rate of all regions.

Plane

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Re: Can we expect comparable commentary?
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2007, 09:27:51 PM »
Is it weasel wordy to say that poverty has increased , when the population has increased more?

_JS

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Re: Can we expect comparable commentary?
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2007, 12:51:10 PM »
Quote
Quote
the rich have gotten richer, and the poor have gotten poorer,

You say that like it is a bad thing.

I realise this is fun time with knute, but do you really believe that?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

BT

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Re: Can we expect comparable commentary?
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2007, 01:08:45 PM »
Quote
Quote
the rich have gotten richer, and the poor have gotten poorer,

You say that like it is a bad thing.

I realise this is fun time with knute, but do you really believe that?


There is a big part of me that conditionally does.

_JS

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Re: Can we expect comparable commentary?
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2007, 01:59:39 PM »
Quote
There is a big part of me that conditionally does.

Would you elaborate on that?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

BT

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Re: Can we expect comparable commentary?
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2007, 02:05:06 PM »
Quote
Would you elaborate on that?

Sure

One condition would have the rich getting richer because they continue to be successful in what they do and are rewarded accordingly.

Another condition would have the poor getting poorer because they continue to be unsuccessful in what they do and are thus not rewarded.


_JS

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Re: Can we expect comparable commentary?
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2007, 02:07:15 PM »
Quote
Another condition would have the poor getting poorer because they continue to be unsuccessful in what they do and are thus not rewarded.

Why should that matter?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Amianthus

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Re: Can we expect comparable commentary?
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2007, 02:43:55 PM »
Why should that matter?

We should reward unsuccessful behaviors?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: Can we expect comparable commentary?
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2007, 02:48:32 PM »
Why should that matter?

We should reward unsuccessful behaviors?

The perpetuation of failure.  Done all the time by well inentioned enablers, and then via the application of guilt get large throngs of folks to support it as well, including Governments
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Can we expect comparable commentary?
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2007, 02:50:25 PM »
Quote
Why should that matter?

Not sure what you are asking. Please explain or expand on the question.