Author Topic: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.  (Read 11941 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2015, 10:29:56 AM »
It's quite apparent what you "think".  whatever the bible teaches, you've dismissed it....with prejudice even.  It matters not that Paul was acting on orders given by God/Jesus, as you've made up your own mind that it just couldn't be.  Which in all honesty, is fine.  That's how its supposed to work, that God gave us free will to chose to either follow his teachings...or not.  And you can even go that extra yard, to try and demean everyone else's relationship with God/Jesus.  It just shows how petty and wayward you are, since a devoted Christian is simply going to feel sorry for you, with all this irrationalization.  Like I said, I'l keep you in my prayers
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2015, 11:08:15 AM »
All you have to do is to actually study the Bible with your brain turned on to realize that it is more chock full of nonsense than the SpongeBob Show.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2015, 12:07:09 PM »
I have studied the bible....copiously.  Since its not meant to be a specific manual, its not necessary to try and microanalyze every verse, with the sole effort of trying to discredit it.  I'll leave that to the non-believers, and just keep praying for them
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2015, 03:21:44 PM »
I think you are about to back into Occams razor, don't get hurt.








http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2015, 06:30:35 PM »
The goal would not be to credit or discredit it, but to simply answer two questions:
What does this mean? and How does this make sense?

Occams Razor is the concept that when there and multiple explanations, the least complicated is normally the best one to choose.

In this case, it tells me that Paul was deluded and wanted to start his own religion with as many followers as possible.
The many Jewish commandments and laws made this pretty close to impossible for non Jews. So *poof!* he simply abolished them.
Ally ally oxen free!
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2015, 06:37:08 PM »
The goal would not be to credit or discredit it, but to simply answer two questions:
What does this mean? and How does this make sense?


No, and no.  Your goal, has been from the beginning to discredit it.  It can't mean anything or make any sense, otherwise your premice is in error.  You decide for yourself what you want it to mean.  If you want it to mean its no more logical than sponge bob, then that's what your "answers" will come to.

To a person of faith, the bible is a blueprint of how & why.  To those who study it, as a faithful Christian, it provides answers galore to so many questions.

To a person who's already made up their mind that the Bible is hogwash, and that Jesus was nothing more than some carpenter with a spiritual fetish, than your 'answers" will simply reinforce that already made-up mind

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2015, 06:47:55 PM »
The Bible is a pretty crappy blueprint.

Job's God is sure as poo not a god of Love.

The Bible has both good advice and bad advice, but it is clearly not consistent or logical. It is deliberately hard to understand.
There is no question that there are a lot of baffling statements in the Bible.

There is no sane reason why a Perfect Being would deliberately confuse people he understands perfectly.

I have read the whole thing through a couple of times, some parts more than others, together with concordances of various types, and  you are right, I have concluded that it is not any sort of divine word, but a compendium of perhaps forty authors, some of them sincere but none of them divine or really divinely inspired.

It;s like you discover an element. First you have to determine whether it is a gas, liquid or a solid, then you do tests to determine the properties. Of course, sometimes what you have is not an element at all, but just something that others in the past have mistaken for an element like the ether or phogiston. 

There is a learning process involved. If you simply believe like a little child, you can never get at the truth, you will believe in tooth faeries and unicorns all your life, only because Mommy and Daddy did.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2015, 06:53:43 PM »
The Bible is a pretty crappy blueprint......

Yea......to a person who's already made up their mind that the Bible is hogwash, and that Jesus was nothing more than some carpenter with a spiritual fetish.  We've aready addressed that.  Then your 'answers" will simply reinforce that already made-up mind

To a person who actually has a personal relationship with Jesus, its a fantastic blueprint.  To each their own.  I'll keep you in my prayers


« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 08:11:37 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2015, 10:14:30 PM »
i pray for you XO
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2015, 12:35:41 AM »
The goal would not be to credit or discredit it, but to simply answer two questions:
What does this mean? and How does this make sense?

Occams Razor is the concept that when there and multiple explanations, the least complicated is normally the best one to choose.

In this case, it tells me that Paul was deluded and wanted to start his own religion with as many followers as possible.
The many Jewish commandments and laws made this pretty close to impossible for non Jews. So *poof!* he simply abolished them.
Ally ally oxen free!

This is an alright explanation for Charlemagne or Constantine, to whom the choice of Christianity was a political advantage.
Paul gained a harder life and a dire fate , none of the apostles made a fortune or high office, and none of them ignored gentiles.
The churches of Paul's ministry were important , but not less Christian or important than the churches founded by the other apostles.
Most of what we know of disagreements between such churches we know from Paul's POV, but his interest was in resolving the problems, not in being bossy.

You think it simpler to think he both went mad and switched sides while remaining cogent and convincing he developed high ambition to create a big church and get imprisoned for most of the rest of his life.

That really doesn't really look simpler, or more likely, to me.
The one thing it does is get around the idea that Jesus rose from the dead and directed the establishment of his church.

Rejecting this idea , but explaining all events, requires some curly reasoning.

For one thing Jesus called himself the fulfillment of the law didn't he?

And wasn't it Jesus that posed the question , to those too eager to enforce the fine points of the law, "Is the law made for man , or is man made for the law?."

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2015, 09:12:04 AM »
You assume that Paul could see into the future, that he could foresee that he would die in his attempts.  I did not say he want mad. His previous attitude was as crazy as his converted attitude. All you have to do is know something about history to see that religion has caused vast numbers of people to act irrationally to win converts or to resist conversion. Religion, at least in the West (as opposed to the East), has been s catalyst for mayhem and destruction. This continues to this day with goofy organizations like Boko Haram and Christian sects in Africa who also have acted in similar ways. 

Paul was no more able to see into the future than you or I.  Even the Hebrew prophets blew it on their silly prophesies many times. Joseph Smith couldn't see into the future either, and he got himself killed at Nauvoo. Bigamy Young could not see into the future, but he died of old age, surrounded by his 56 wives and multitudinous children.

Good advice: whenever you find someone who claims to see into the future, ignore him, he is exeperincing some sort of self-delusion.

In the West, there is the idea that there is One True Religion, and one must follow Mythra, Cesar Augustus, God, Allah LittlebabyJeezus ( actually his designated leader) and destroy those who refuse to See the Light.

In the East, religion has taken a more personal form, that there are better and worse ways to live one's life, that some pursuits are more fortuitous than others. A truth is a truth because it is true, not because Lao Tze, Confucius or the Buddha revealed it.

In the West, people pray, which is a form of self-brainwashing. In the East, people meditate, with fewer ill effects, ie they never hear voices telling them to kill others or punish heretics, or pass laws that violate the freedom of others to use contraceptives, have abortions, pray in school and erect monoliths from movies in their courthouses.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2015, 09:22:34 AM »
I have never said that Jesus was a carpenter. There is no evidence whatever that he ever made a single stick of furniture or remodeled a single bathroom.

He was a guy with a weird way of speaking and charisma. Such people pop up in human history all the time. Most of what people associate with Jesus was added on after he was gone. He said he's be back before the last of a group of people died, but he did not come back, and he is not coming back. Not next Tuesday, not soon, not ever. Still, in 3015, there will surely be people waiting for him. That is what religion is all about: it is like waiting for a stop sign, thinking it is a stop light. It will not change.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2015, 10:28:05 AM »
I have never said that Jesus was a carpenter. There is no evidence whatever that he ever made a single stick of furniture or remodeled a single bathroom.

It was rhetorical, Dr. Deflection......it could have been dentist, or roofer.  In the bible, he happened to be a carpenter when he was young.  The point was that to you, he was a nobody, some man, who walked around "preaching" and only caring about the Jews.  He came back after 3 days, as he promised, and he'll be back one more time, as he pledged.  And here's the kicker, you don't have to believe that, nor is anyone trying to "force that down your throat".  You're perfectly free to be left behind.  I'll still pray for you however

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2015, 11:36:52 AM »
You brought up the carpentry stuff, not me. Therefore you are the one doing this diversion.

It does not say in the Bible that he was a carpenter. It says that his father (stepfather?) Joseph was a carpenter. Actually, Joseph probably belonged to a itinerant carpenters who traveled about doing jobs in a fairly large area. It does not actually make a difference, since his carpentry skills if he had any, were unrelated to his wandering ministry, except perhaps, for the wandering about part.
 It was when he appeared at Emmaus that he promised to return ere the last person in the group had died. Read your bible, it is all in the book.

Like most Christians, you know about that the Bible says from hearsay, what they told you, than from actually reading the thing for itself.

The Bible is not so much the "Greatest Story ever Told" as it is "The Greatest Assemblage of  Folktales, Customs, Taboos, Poetry, Prophesy and Nonsense Passed off as Divine and Rarely Read or Comprehended".

Of course, the big draw for Paul was the Eternal Life bit. Jews do not traditionally believe in life after death. There were a few famous Jews, Moses, for example, that were so holy they were sucked right up into the cloud by the Divine Celestrial Electrolux, and of course, the Egyptians were firm believers in life after death, hence the great attention they paid to embalming and fancy tombs. But for Jews, you did what Elohim said, because if you did not, Elohim would get pissed and fuck up your children for generations to come. Jews were believers because of the stick of punishment of the descendents rather than the carrot of eternal life. Christians promised a place in the Choir Celestial to everyone, though the description is beyond vague.

You got a better place in Heaven if you died a martyr, so Paul was like, "Oooh! Where do I sign up?"
Christianity did not invent martyrdom. It has a very long history with many a Sand Person.

Prayer is probably good for some people, if they do it right. But so is meditation, and for the same reason.
With meditation, you are not left with the problem of waiting for your prayers to come true, though.

I suppose that Christianity is a boon for those people who feel that they need LittlebabyJeezus to keep them in line and not go ape and do wicked things. Of Jeezus keeps sirs from taking his arsenal out and drilling holes in the kiddies at Hometown Elementary, then religion is clearly a good thing, despite its inherent disconnection from reality.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The "Religion of Peace" strikes it's own.
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2015, 12:01:03 PM »
You brought up the carpentry stuff, not me. Therefore you are the one doing this diversion.

As I explained, it wasn't a diversion, since it could have been ANY occupation, and the point I made would have still been valid.  It matters NOT what his prior occupation was, since that's irrelvent to the point being made.  It only matters to someone trying to focus in on that, in order to avoid the point being made.  Bravo, Dr Deflection

And as I've also referenced before, if your goal is to try and discredit it, than anything you read and microanalyze is going to supposedy support that already made up mind.  For those who are Christian, and have also read the bible, like myself, have our answers to questions, copiously addressed.  Even when we inquire about folks like yourself, the answers are many.  The more you try to demean and degrade my faith, the more I feel sorry for you
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle