Freddie Gray

[Plane]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/freddie-gray-killed-after-head-slammed-into-bolt-in-back-of-police-van-say-reports/ar-BBiXIAC


  For most people , damage to the spine or neck is evidence of a heavy impact. The Idea that this was self inflicted seems bizarre, can a person really break his own neck by falling against a wall or floor intentionally?
   This theory seems unsatisfactory, is there going to be some evidence ?
   
   I know two people who have recovered from broken necks, even if the damage was not inflicted by the police , it should have been noticed and brought to treatment sooner.

     Can there be a policy that prisoners are examined for injury , perhaps all prisoners?

[Xavier_Onassis]

The idea that Freddie did this to himself is pretty conveeeeeenient, as Church Lady used to say.

I doubt that the cops wanted to kill him, but he was in custody, and now he's dead, so they are responsible for his being dead.

I am sure they will wriggle out of actual jail time.  I will be surprised if even the cop in South Carolina ends up in jail. The strategy will be to delay, delay, delay, then obfuscate, and perhaps we will see a verdict in 2018.

The cops were not to blame, of course, as CU4 says, you have to be polite to cops even if their actions will wreck your entire life. They are like wolves or grizzly bears. One false move and you are lunch.

[kimba1]

reminds me of the movie cry freedom which in the end it show a very long list of people who died in custody


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLJSz-wzOHI

[Christians4LessGvt]

during my crazy years (18 years old) i was placed in a paddy wagon at 2AM
i was the only one in the paddy wagon not attached to the chain gang
as we drove to the police station some prisoners inside the paddy wagon started kicking the sides of the paddy wagon
they were literally kicking the shit out of the sides...it happened over and over...
finally the driver SLAMMED on the brakes a few times...to send a message to stop the non-sense
every time the driver stomped on the brakes....we all went flying inside the paddy wagon
I could actually envision someone getting injured in this type situation
you are handcuffed....flying threw the air & cant brace your fall with your hands due to the handcuffs
with that said I would think it would be pretty unusual to get a broken neck from it
 

[sirs]

For most people , damage to the spine or neck is evidence of a heavy impact. The Idea that this was self inflicted seems bizarre, can a person really break his own neck by falling against a wall or floor intentionally?

As a health care professional, with extensive work with spinal cord injuries, yes they can. But made significantly harder to do, if you're restrained.  So, while it might be possible, it doesn't sound likely, since the amount of force required to do that kind of damage to the SC is significantly reduced if you don't have the extremities free to render such force.   

Now, what has more plausibility is if he was in an upright position and following some hard turn of the van, fell directly on such a bolt.  But I'm guessing that bolt would have to be on the floor with the full force of the head and neck falling on it, rather than simply hitting it against the inside wall of the van.  It takes quite a bit of force to sever the SC

 

[Xavier_Onassis]

It turns out that Freddy was arrested for having an illegal weapon (a switchblade), when in fact the knife he was carrying was NOT a switchblade. So he was arrested on false charges.

I have seen many switchblades and other pocket knives, and I can tell the difference at  perhaps five paces.

I would think that a policeman would be vastly better at telling the difference that I.

They have charged the six cops. This was certainly the wise thing to do. It is the only way all,mthe facts will ever come out, and if they let them go, it would surely cost more lives and millions of dollars in damages.

[Plane]

They have charged the six cops. This was certainly the wise thing to do. It is the only way all,mthe facts will ever come out, and if they let them go, it would surely cost more lives and millions of dollars in damages.

This is not a good way to make policy or achieve justice.
Is it the best means available?

[sirs]

[Xavier_Onassis]

This is not a good way to make policy or achieve justice.
Is it the best means available?

===================================================
I can think of no better course of action, based on what I have read about the case.

Shall we try six guys who seem to have something to do with a death, or shall we turn them lose and have half the city burned down and even more cases of police vs civilian fights to deal with?

[sirs]

I sure would like to know what bolt that was protruding so much, in the back of the police van, while restrained both hands & feet, that he could have severed his spinal cord on

[Plane]

      I don't know , the evidence has not been published enough for me to make up my mind.

      The story sounds incomplete.

       Aside from the cause of the injury, there seems to have been too much delay between the injury and examination by persons competent to know how serious the injury was.

    What level of training and instrumentation is required to spot a problem like this?

      Can Police be trained to this level?

       It might not be possible to make every policeman an RN and have an MRI machine in every police station.
      But Police are already commonly trained in first aid and keep in the squad car the supplies for trauma , burns and emergency birth.
       How much more would be required to make police dependable in effective triage of injury?

[Plane]

This is not a good way to make policy or achieve justice.
Is it the best means available?

===================================================
I can think of no better course of action, based on what I have read about the case.

Shall we try six guys who seem to have something to do with a death, or shall we turn them lose and have half the city burned down and even more cases of police vs civilian fights to deal with?

If this is just to answer the mob, then it does not matter how culpable the police are , nor whether the villain or  a scapegoat eventually receive punishment.

[kimba1]

sirs what is the most probable cause for the severed spine in a van? repeated slamming, hits ...?


plane it`s not a matter of training more of timing. most cases these deaths I`ve heard is the officers take way too long to call for medical help if at all.

in fact I think this is the 3rd spinal related death while in custody I heard in the news

[Plane]

  I just saw a report, that Freddy Gray was probably not a good candidate for arrest. 
   The knife he had was a legal one, there isn't really much evidence that Mr. Grey was breaking any laws when he was stopped.
   No wonder he seemed irate.


    I note that XO has already mentioned this , but now it is on FOX , so I give it more credence.
     

[kimba1]

this subjects makes me strangely nostalgic. takes back when I had baton training and the instructor informed us it`s now illegal to hit people on the side of the head now and some of my fellow student were upset about this since they actually does this and greatly endorse how effective it is. decades later on I was told my training from that class(all groin shots) is illegal now.  I can`t promise if push I won`t aim for the groin with my baton.

maybe these officers had outdated training. I remember often old guards offer to showme move that are definitely not legal.