Author Topic: Obama is about to lose Iraq!  (Read 2983 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama is about to lose Iraq!
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2015, 09:25:31 AM »
Juniorbush set the date for withdrawal and neither Obama nor Congress changed it.

Congress did not want to keep the troops there. Neither did the people of this country.

Iraqis must solve their own problems.

Iraq was the worst mistake since Vietnam. It actually cost us more" one tenth of the national debt.
 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Obama is about to lose Iraq!
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2015, 10:25:06 AM »
Iraqis must solve their own problems.

Why weren't you saying this when Obama was meddling in
Libya and now Libya is in chaos and in much worse shape?
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: Obama is about to lose Iraq!
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2015, 10:47:06 AM »
Juniorbush set the date for withdrawal and neither Obama nor Congress changed it.

No, he he never set a formal date.  Merely the parameters for our withdrawl


Congress did not want to keep the troops there. Neither did the people of this country.

No one wanted to "keep our troops there".  Not Bush nor I.  What was expected however was to leave a small residual force, as we have done so many other times, after so many other conflicts.  Troops that are still there in fact, decades after wars


Iraqis must solve their own problems.

Absolutely.  and they were well on their way to that.......until Obama pulled the military rug out, from under them


Iraq was the worst mistake since Vietnam. It actually cost us more" one tenth of the national debt.

Putting aside the opinion as supposedly worst, As it relates to lives lost, in a war, it was a mere fraction to any other major war we were engaged in.  That'd be a fact, vs an opinion.  Another fact is that as a % of GDP, Iraq's cost in total, was a whopping 4.3% of the GDP.  Vietnam was 9.5%.  Korea was 13.2%, and WWII cost us 37.5% of our GDP.

Doncha hate when facts get in the way of a good rant?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 12:05:03 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama is about to lose Iraq!
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2015, 01:34:52 PM »
The war was mongered based on lies.

Cheney and Juniorbush had plans to invade Iraq before 9-11., and then they deliberately asked for information that would justify this stupid invasion.
Ooooh!  Iraq tried to buy uranium in AFRICA!!!
5000 dead Americans and an entire country wrecked and its people displaced was NOT a small price.

No matter how bad Saddam was, the mess that resulted is far worse, and was entirely predictable.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Obama is about to lose Iraq!
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2015, 01:44:18 PM »
The war was mongered based on lies.

Lies that you and the left can never seem to back up.  EVERY President has plans for various contingiencies.  5000 Americans sacrified their lives to take out, what at the time GLOBAL intel had concluded, a regime that had the means of doing widespread death to the region, and heaven knows how many more beyond that, had he aquired nuclear capability.  And following 911, was the right call to make, based on the intel at the time

In order to justify the asanine lie claim, you have to demonstrate proof that Bush KNEW there were no WMD, and took us to war anyways.

And what WAS predicted, and now has come to fruition, is that taking out our troops prematurely would result in exactly what's happending now.  But I appreciate how you couldn't refute how little the Iraq war cost us in both lives and cost based on GDP %'s, as compared to other major wars.  Deflection effort noted

« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 06:20:33 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Obama is about to lose Iraq!
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2015, 08:19:48 PM »
How long ago did President Obama proclaim success?

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Obama is about to lose Iraq!
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2015, 09:05:56 PM »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama is about to lose Iraq!
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2015, 11:06:29 PM »
Juniorbush did not want to know whether there were WMDs or not. He only wanted someone to tell him that there were, because the plan was to invade from the day his sorry ass was elected, oops selected.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Obama is about to lose Iraq!
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2015, 11:21:18 PM »
Juniorbush did not want to know whether there were WMDs or not. He only wanted someone to tell him that there were, because the plan was to invade from the day his sorry ass was elected, oops selected.

This making up crap is really for the birds.  You have no fricken clue what Bush wanted or didn't want to know.  The reality of the situation dictated his decision making.  His intel, and most every other intel agency across the globe, including the UN, concluded he had them.  He made the right call, based on the predominance of the intel that was being provided, and set into motion with the events of 911.  Is he just supposed to ignore what most everyone was telling him, as it relates to Iraqis' WMD, and the connections Iraq had with terrorists who had just murdered thousands of Americans with mere box cutters??  That's not what a President does.  That's not what a leader does
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 12:05:50 AM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Obama is about to lose Iraq!
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2015, 11:36:39 PM »
  I disagree with the whole notion that leaving Saddam Hussein unmolested, in power, and at war with us until the present day would have been a winning idea.

    Why would he leave us alone ?

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Obama is about to lose Iraq!
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2015, 09:40:50 AM »
Even-though I currently feel the Iraq War was a mistake
(because the Left was never going to allow us to do what it takes to win)
this is an interesting article:



5 REASONS THE IRAQ WAR WAS NOT A MISTAKE

The Associated Press

by JOEL B. POLLAK

19 May 2015

The media have finally extracted from Hillary Clinton the question they have pressing her Republican rivals to answer for several weeks now: knowing what we now know about Iraq that it did not have the weapons of mass destruction (WMD) it was thought to have should we still have invaded Iraq?

The answer journalists wish to hear is "no," because it is a way of excusing President Barack Obama for the predictable (and predicted) mess that transpired when he withdrew from Iraq.

That is a safe answer, because it satisfies the media (for now, until the inevitable follow-up questions about Iran begin). However, the question itself is a trick. The entire point of the debate over the Iraq War at the time was that we did not know whether or not Iraq was developing weapons of mass destruction, because it would not tell us, or the United Nations. Though the execution of the war was deeply flawed, there are at least five reasons it was justified, even without WMD.

1. In a post-9/11 world, uncertainty about WMD is not an option. The central preoccupation of policymakers after 9/11 was preventing any further mass terror attacks against the United States. The George W. Bush administration would have been blamed and rightly so if Iraq had used WMD or passed WMD to terrorists. It was not a chance the U.S. or the world could afford to take. And given the refusal of Saddam Hussein to cooperate with the UN, there was no alternative.

2. An American force in the Middle East would increase pressure on Iran. Removing Saddam Hussain meant removing a threat to the Iranian regime. But putting hundreds of thousands of American troops on Iran's western border along with those already in Afghanistan to the east meant posing a much more potent threat to the regime. That is why Iran temporarily slowed its nuclear program after 2003 and why the Iranian people found the courage to rise in 2009.

3. Freeing the people of Iraq was, and is, a worthy goal. Just a few years ago, with American and allied troops still in Iraq in significant numbers, the sectarian violence and terrorism that had plagued the country for years had begun to slow down. The Iraqi people began to enjoy some semblance of order, of democracy, and of liberty. Instead of staying in Iraq to guide and protect that process as Obama had promised to do in 2008, Obama abandoned the Iraqi people.

4. International law means nothing unless it is backed up by the will to enforce it. Saddam Hussein defied international law repeatedly: He used WMD against his own people; he invaded his neighbors; he sponsored terrorism. And he did it because he had no fear of facing the consequences. International law, flawed though it is, is a necessary and stabilizing institution?and needs enforcement, even (especially) when global institutions are too corrupt to enforce it.

5. There is potential for freedom in the region with American leadership. The fall of Saddam Hussein inspired the Lebanese people to rise up against Syrian occupation, and planted the seeds of what later became the Arab Spring. If American leadership had remained strong, that process might have been a positive one. (Certainly Syria would not have become a killing field.) The Middle East may never be fertile soil for democracy, but it can certainly be freer than it is today.

There are, of course, excellent arguments against the war. The best is that it was carried out in crisis management mode, without any real attempt to grapple with the strategic challenge of Iran (or extremism in other nations, such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan).

That argument still stands. But it has nothing to do with the question of whether Iraq had WMD.

The only critical thing we know now, which we could not know then, is how careless Bush's unlikely successor would be.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/05/19/5-reasons-the-iraq-war-was-not-a-mistake/
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama is about to lose Iraq!
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2015, 10:09:02 AM »
The American people did not want to continue the madness in Iraq. The US is incapable of turning Iraq into anything orderly and peaceful. It has proven to be a giant bottomless money pit.

You rightwing assholes care more about people in countries you could not find on a map than you do your own fellow Americans.

Not Obama nor anyone elected after Obama is going to reinvade Iraq. 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Obama is about to lose Iraq!
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2015, 10:19:18 AM »
It WAS being turned into something orderly and peaceful.  However, with the left and its compliant lapdogs in the MSM, drum beating how "horrible" things were, yes, public opinion polls didn't support the war.  Still doesn't refute that it was the right call to make at the time.  Nor dos it refute how few lives it cost us, compared to other major wars.  Nor does it refute how little it cost us as a % of our GDP compared to other major wars.  Nor does it refute that it was entirely predicted, Iraq's falling into the hands of terrorist organizations, if forces were to be prematurely withdrawn

And you really don't want to try arguing about caring for other people in this country Professor Anti-Constitution.  You'd snatch away our freedoms, in a heart beat, if you had the power, and not think twice
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama is about to lose Iraq!
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2015, 10:35:12 AM »
It was never orderly and peaceful. What the fuck planet are you on?

It is interesting that you thing that a mere 4000 of your fellow citizens are a small price to pay for  "saving" Iraq.  Think of them as unborn babies and maybe you will understand the utter stupidity of this comment. And the hundred thousand or so Iraqis that were killed as the result of Juniorbush's idiocy and the millions forced out of their homes and country, they are of no importance to you either.

The US cannot save Iraq. Just as 50 years occupying the Philippines were not enough to turn it into a prosperous democracy.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Obama is about to lose Iraq!
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2015, 10:43:07 AM »
You rightwing assholes

wow Hooven Cloof you having a bad morning?
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987