Should teachers be allowed to wear anti-war t-shirts?

[Xavier_Onassis]

I`m not even sure teacher don`t work in the summer time.
===========================================

MOst teachers have the option of working in the summer. It is often paid in peanuts, and NEVER time and a half for overtime. Most often it is less than the per diem paid during the rest of the year.

At my university, I can teach two classes for $4000, four days per week. The full teaching loads during the rest of the year is a starting salary of $32000 (plus medical benefits and a vested 403b) for ten classes. $4000 for two classes is the equivalent of $20K per year, with zero benefits. This amount has been the same for the past ten years.

Being as I have a limited number of summers, I have chosen to not teach in the summer. If I were worse at investing my money, I suppose I'd need to teach in the summers, but luckily, I have a choice.

[yellow_crane]

I'm with Henny and Mikey on this one.  I do wonder - and perhaps XO can answer this - doesn't a teacher's contract contain a dress code that would specifically prohibit them from wearing clothing that reflects their personal opinions?

I would expand on Henny's statement a bit:  a teacher's job is not only to teach, but to teach students to think for themselves.  Inserting one's personal opinion, whether vocally or via a t-shirt slogan, would hinder that process.

Suppose you were teaching a high school journalism class, M.  

It would be pretty certain that kids who have an active interest in journalism would be somewhat aware of the intense changes that journalism is undergoing.  If they watched or read any contingent coverage of this and the influences that have brough about these changes--corporate and large governmental hatred of just or unjust criticism--they would see that the real deal is being mutated by special interests.  

Would you encourage them to investigate these issues, the issues that are real but are controlled now by strong special interests?

I can think of no other trade which permits and even requires that authority be challenged.

Would you encourage them to challenge authority (the gist of most T shirt messages), or would you encourage them to become pert and perky, start with a morning show, and become the captain at the helm of CBS News (now more appropriately named Mews, not News) by dint of dumning down all that journalism was and still is?

[_JS]

Kids go to school to learn math, english, science, etc.  They go to College to learn what occupational pursuit they need to absorb themselves in.  They don't go to be told how evil Bush is, or how fantastic Bush is.  They don't go there to be told how terrible war is.  That's not what teachers are payed to do.  If they wish to press their 1st amendment right to dissent, by all means do it on THEIR time, not the tax payers.  We tell students they're not allowed to wear pro-Christian shirts, or anti-abortion shirts, or the dreaded implied anti-gay t-shirt, despite they aren't being payed, so should have more a right to wear them than teachers.

Kids go to school to learn. There is more to learning than what is written in a math book.

There is more to university than an occupational pursuit to absorb onself in.

The past tense of "pay" is "paid" not "payed."

Education is more than rote memorization and basic studies Sirs. Why can't children wear pro-Christian shirts or anti-abortion shirts (in many places they can)?

I completely disagree with your compartmentalized view of education. Dull students and dull teachers won't get students anywhere. They need to be challenged. They need to learn and read from people who will challenge their safe middle class notions.

[Amianthus]

It is often paid in peanuts,

Raw, roasted, or boiled?

[sirs]

Kids go to school to learn. There is more to learning than what is written in a math book.  There is more to university than an occupational pursuit to absorb onself in.

To embrace the ideology of the teacher??  I think not.  Especially in Public tax payer schools & universites

Why can't children wear pro-Christian shirts or anti-abortion shirts (in many places they can)?

Because they're told not to by school administraters and parents threatening to sue the school for being offended.  (In most, if not nearly all places, they can't.  In many, they have uniforms)

I completely disagree with your compartmentalized view of education. Dull students and dull teachers won't get students anywhere. They need to be challenged. They need to learn and read from people who will challenge their safe middle class notions.

I agree IF they were presented EQUAL education on the issues, EQUAL reference to the props and cons, EQUAL representation of what's being taught.  The whole theme of this thread is related to that point.  Teachers wearing Bush Sucks T-shirts, and War budgets leave every child behind is not challenging students to learn, it's propoganda pure & simple

[_JS]

To embrace the ideology of the teacher??  I think not.  Especially in Public tax payer schools & universites

If you can't think for yourself by High School then you're going to embrace some idiots ideology anyway. Seriously, how many people do that? By university if you are embracing ideology so easily then why are you there?

I stand by my statement:

Kids go to school to learn. There is more to learning than what is written in a math book.  There is more to university than an occupational pursuit to absorb onself in.

If American kids are as pathetic as you claim Sirs, then we might as well just indoctrinate them and create an Empire of some kind. I tend to believe they aren't quite so pathetic.

Because they're told not to by school administraters and parents threatening to sue the school for being offended.  (In most, if not nearly all places, they can't.  In many, they have uniforms)

So? Let the classroom be a place where they can discuss those views. Obviously not in math or physics, but in history or government where it is relevant.

I agree IF they were presented EQUAL education on the issues, EQUAL reference to the props and cons, EQUAL representation of what's being taught.

Who is going to measure it? The Department of Equal Teaching in Local High School Classes is going to hire a government monitor? Blech. Critical thinking and discussing views needs to be free of such idiocy.

The whole theme of this thread is related to that point.  Teachers wearing Bush Sucks T-shirts, and War budgets leave every child behind is not challenging students to learn, it's propoganda pure & simple

It can be very challenging. It raises very good questions and students could discuss budgets, deficits, warfare, the situation in Iraq, President Bush, the role of Congress, etc. The fact that it isn't challenging you to think, doesn't apply to everyone Sirs.

[sirs]

Look Js, I have no problem where these issues can be discussed openly and honestly in classes like Sociology or Political Science.  Hell, the teacher can be overtly biased in those realms.  I DO have a problem in nearly any other class, History included, when the teacher is pushing an overt ideological bias, at the expense of education, by denying equal referencing, speakers, projects, discussion, etc., on the opposing ideology, and instead get talked down to & ridiculed by the teacher, and likely all those other students who have become followers of the teacher's ideology.  And let's not forget the implied threats of having their grades knocked down, for failing to be properly "educated" in the ways of the teacher

[Henny]

Kids go to school to learn math, english, science, etc.  They go to College to learn what occupational pursuit they need to absorb themselves in.

Just to clarify, I believe what happens on the university level is entirely different. A professor can wear whatever he wants. We are now talking about students that are 18+, are free to add and drop classes and choose the professors they want.

[Henny]

If you can't think for yourself by High School then you're going to embrace some idiots ideology anyway. Seriously, how many people do that? By university if you are embracing ideology so easily then why are you there?

JS, I agree with you about university students, and I technically agree with you about high school students.

BUT... high school is different. We're talking about minors now. Liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat, parents don't send their children to public school to be randomly indoctrinated by the teachers. I see this as very similar to teaching religion in public schools; whether or not the students can think for themselves, the schools have no right to override the parents.

[The_Professor]

Kids go to school to learn math, English, science, etc.  They go to College to learn what occupational pursuit they need to absorb themselves in.  They don't go to be told how evil Bush is, or how fantastic Bush is.  They don't go there to be told how terrible war is.  That's not what teachers are payed to do.  If they wish to press their 1st amendment right to dissent, by all means do it on THEIR time, not the tax payers.  We tell students they're not allowed to wear pro-Christian shirts, or anti-abortion shirts, or the dreaded implied anti-gay t-shirt, despite they aren't being payed, so should have more a right to wear them than teachers.

Kids go to school to learn. There is more to learning than what is written in a math book.

There is more to university than an occupational pursuit to absorb onself in.

The past tense of "pay" is "paid" not "payed."

Education is more than rote memorization and basic studies Sirs. Why can't children wear pro-Christian shirts or anti-abortion shirts (in many places they can)?

I completely disagree with your compartmentalized view of education. Dull students and dull teachers won't get students anywhere. They need to be challenged. They need to learn and read from people who will challenge their safe middle class notions.

I completely concur (amazing!). Students go to college to learn to learn; occupational preparation is an additional benefit perhaps. This whole idea of going to college to learn a skill is not appropriate. College should develop higher order critical thinking skills. If you want to learn a skill, then that is why there are "technical schools, colleges, institutes". Just be careful; few of those credits will transfer, at least here in Georgia. Why? The technical colleges do not concentrate on developing higher order critical thinking skills. They deal in the "hows", we deal in the "whys".

[The_Professor]

I`m not even sure teacher don`t work in the summer time.
===========================================

Most teachers have the option of working in the summer. It is often paid in peanuts, and NEVER time and a half for overtime. Most often it is less than the per diem paid during the rest of the year.

At my university, I can teach two classes for $4000, four days per week. The full teaching loads during the rest of the year is a starting salary of $32000 (plus medical benefits and a vested 403b) for ten classes. $4000 for two classes is the equivalent of $20K per year, with zero benefits. This amount has been the same for the past ten years.

Being as I have a limited number of summers, I have chosen to not teach in the summer. If I were worse at investing my money, I suppose I'd need to teach in the summers, but luckily, I have a choice.

$32,000? Ouch! The only ones at my college making that little are in the social sciences and humanities. It is probably unfair to many but the market sets the salaries and the market says there are tons of Ph.Ds in the social science and humanities and so therefore they make less.

Is this a private college where funds are less? Summer pay here is 10% of your 9-month contract per course. You are allowed to teach three per summer. Do you have to have a Ph.D there?

[kimba1]

funny thing
kto 12 level we`re not that good
but at the college level we`re in a whole different level.
the U.S. does have a very huge amount of colleges compared to the rest of the planet
pretty much every country that can has students studying here.
even the countries slated to have better education than us has students here.
remember we`re one of the few countries that has open higher education
most people in the world would not consider going to college .
here in the U.S. education in thought of differently.
we tend think of it as a way to develop or learn new skills
our only road block is americans as a rule has never been a particularly academic people.
ex. the word nerd or geek has yet been used in a positive term
anyone who studies hard in school rarely gets the dates
we even got a TV show that points that out
beauty and the geek
they had to dangle big bucks for these girls to notice these guys.

[The_Professor]

I concur, kimba1. Weird and, in a way, sad. I look at the number of young people who long to be a highly-paid sports star,etc. instead of being well-educated. Sad...very sad.

After all, how many of us would NOT want our children to have a college education? Granted, college is NOT for everyone, too. I know my wife and I are putting our five children throguh college, through hell or highwater, unless they are not inclined that way such as our youngest male and the oldest male...sigh. So, three to go!

[kimba1]

sports
feh!!

Their are more doctors than pro athletes.
more lawyers than pro athletes.
education overall is a better bet than sports in a secure future
but for the talented youth who can score a athletic scholarship.
they NEED to know how to negotiate it to a full free ride at school
meaning make sure he/her is covered for school whether he/she plays or not.
blown knees are way too common.
it`s getting common today to get an athletic scholarship not dependent on performance.
but never think for once it`s a given
college sports is way more corrupt than pro sports
I got friends in texas ,the game is more important than the player`s health.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Pro sports is not a career like doctors or lawyers. You can be a doctor or a lawyer until you are 70.
A pro athlete is nearly always finished before he is 40.
Most pro athletes don't make all that much, and are ill-equipped to spend the next 30 years or so in retirement.