Living with Guns...The Swiss Way

[sirs]

Sure it can.  Many a riot have been instigated by nothing more than speech.  Much of that speech however is defended as being a Constitutional protection.   When a firearm is used negligently or criminally to hurt or kill, that right is forfeited.   UNTIL that time however,  the right to defend oneself with a firearm is as sacred as your right to say it isn't

[Plane]

Zimmerman has the right to live, but unarmed. Wait and see, he is not likely to die of natural causes.

Without his gun he would be dead already.
Why begrudge him his life?

Do you really maintain that walking around the streets of his own neighborhood should be a capitol offense?

If he had been unarmed , that is how it would have been.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I really maintain that all Zimmerman needed to do was just keep driving his truck and not stop to interrogate Martin, being as (1) Martin was doing nothing illegal and (2) even if he were, this is a job for the real cops, not some self-appointed vigilante.

I suggest that having the gun with him caused him to act belligerently.  Both Martin and Zimmerman were out of line, of course, but it was Martin who ended up dead.

[Plane]

  You mean that getting out of his car was a crime worthy of death?

Neither you nor I know his level of belligerence, but what could he have said that  would make killing him a good idea?

[Xavier_Onassis]

It would have been better off for both Zimmerman and Martin had Zimmerman just kept on a-driving. No laws were being broken, he had no reason to bother Martin.
Zimmerman was the older, and therefore he should have been the most responsible.

Both of these guys behaved like morons, of course.

It is never a good idea to kill anyone. There was no war going on there.

[Plane]

It would have been better off for both Zimmerman and Martin had Zimmerman just kept on a-driving. No laws were being broken, he had no reason to bother Martin.

Neither did Mr Martin have any justification for beating Mr. Zimmerman this is not even. bothering someone with unwelcome presence is an order of magnitude less malicious than is an attempt to crack a persons skull.

Zimmerman was the older, and therefore he should have been the most responsible.

Even so. he was never outside his rights to walk , not outside his rights to speak. Why would Mr. Martin be within his rights to throw Mr. Zimmerman down and beat him even a little?

Both of these guys behaved like morons, of course.

The fault is not evenly distributed , both had cell phones , both felt suspicious, one of them called 911, the other seems to have set up an ambush.

It is never a good idea to kill anyone. There was no war going on there.

Which one are you referring to?

It is a good idea to avoid violence as long as there is a better choice .

By the time Mr. Zimmerman's gun became involved Mr. Zimmerman was on his back and being beaten, was he at this point unreasonable to be worried about his being killed?

[Xavier_Onassis]

There was nothing that either Martin or Zimmerman did that was not incredibly stupid. The fact that it was not illegal is hardly the point. I am not talking about legal or illegal, I am not discussing the rights of anyone. The ACTIONS are what count, and both of them acted stupidly and both would have been better off had they used their brains instead of playing macho man games. Zimmerman was the older, and therefore had the greatest responsibility to refrain from being a dick. Alas, he failed. And his entire life was changed as a result, and not for the better.

Zimmerman should have continued driving his truck. Martin was unlikely to steal anything. Zimmerman could have just left a message with the cops.

[sirs]

What Zimmerman did or didn't do is largely irrelevant at this point.  Fact is, he was attacked,  and without his firearm, would likely have been permanently injured, if not killed.  He hadn't pulled it, he hadn't brandished it, he wasn't looking to hurt anyone.  The judicial system agreed.  Yet another life saved with the use of a firearm

[Plane]

  The entire event matters, but when you have an ax to grind , it helps to selectively recall the details.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Another life lost because of some ijit and his gun.

[Plane]

Another life lost because of some ijit and his gun.

How can you blame the gun?

Everything except Mr. Zimmerman's survival could have happened without it.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I blame Zimmerman for being a total fool and  appointing himself as a vigilante. He was protecting no one, he was looking for trouble. If he had not been packing heat, perhaps he would have just kept on driving and left Martin and whatever he was doing, up to the cops. Martin was also an idiot.

It was not just the gun, it was the gun in the hands of a dummy looking for trouble.

[Plane]

  You have3 a strange idea about his motivation.

    Neighborhood watch is not a bad idea and many communities have encouraged volunteer effort.

     Keeping a watch on the street should have made everyone safer , in theory even Mr. Martin was safer.

       But mistakes being made , it certainly was not the case that Mr. Zimmerman attacked Mr. Martin first.

         Anyone who attacks someone assumes the responsibility for the outcome at that moment, perhaps he thought he was under threat , but if he had not attacked Mr. Zimmerman for a few minutes more , the arrival of the Police that Mr. Zimmerman had called might have prevented all of the trouble.

              Why indeed did Mr. Martin attack ?
                We know he had a cell phone , why not call for help?

[sirs]

Another life lost because of some ijit and his gun.

Caused by the thug who attacked the "ijit and his gun"

[Xavier_Onassis]

The particular neighborhood where Zimmerman lived did NOT have neighborhood watch and Zimmerman was basically a freelance vigilante.

 I see anyone doing something suspicious in my neighborhood, I will not stop the car or get out oif it, and I will just call the cops.

Zimmerman and Martin would both be better off had this fool stayed in his damned car. I am tired of talking about this, you are too damn dumb to bother with.