Author Topic: How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?  (Read 10935 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?
« on: August 02, 2015, 01:06:23 PM »
The death of Cecil, the black-maned lion killed by an American big-game hunter in Zimbabwe, has unleashed a global storm of Internet indignation. The hunter, Dr. Walter Palmer, a dentist from Minnesota, has been forced into hiding.

On the face of it, the reasons are not hard to discern: In an era of dwindling wildlife, proliferation of threatened species and large-scale poaching of elephants and other beasts, big-game hunting in Africa does not hold the allure it may have had in Teddy Roosevelt’s day. And Cecil was no ordinary cat.

The 13-year-old lion was a star attraction at the Hwange National Park in Zimbabwe, out of which the hunters lured him with a carcass, and he wore a collar by which scientists at the University of Oxford had been tracking him since 2008. It was wrong and, according to the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force, illegal to kill Cecil. Dr. Palmer, who reportedly paid more than $50,000 for the hunt, said he relied on local guides and did not know it was an illegal hunt. An official at the United States Fish and Wildlife Service said the agency is also investigating the case.

Humans are very selective in their attitudes toward threatened species, and obviously Cecil, a beautiful beast, is the beneficiary of very selective attention. And while critics and non-hunters are repelled by the killing of beautiful animals simply for bragging rights, hunters are not the main reason for the decline in the population of African lions — about 30,000 today, down from 200,000 a century ago. The main threat, as to many other animals large and small, is a vanishing habitat. Some hunters argue that they help conservation through their efforts to maintain the habitats of their prey.

These debates will not be ended by Cecil’s cruel death, but maybe something important can come of the public outrage. It should refocus attention on the







I can't say that I would favor extraditing the fugitive dentist to Zimbabwe, but his case depends on how much he understood about who he was paying and how those who took his money deceived him.   It is at least as sporting in my book for a dentist from Minneapolis to hunt a lion with a bow and arrow as a teenage Masai warrior to hunt a lion with a spear. No one actually kills lions for food, although I am sure parts of lions are eaten.

The dentist gets a trophy perhaps, the Masai warrior boy gets to become a Masai warrior man. I do not think there are any Masai in Zimbabwe, but killing large dangerous beasts has always been a big deal in every society. There used to be lions in Europe, but they all were killed.

I think that outlawing lion hunts is perhaps justified. It is not like anyone NEEDS to slay a lion or get the "Big Five" trophies.

If the dentist were hunting grizzlies in Alaska, that would be less likely to cause scandal, but no less mortal for the grizzly... or perhaps the dentist.

I an an anti-dentite, as Seinfeld would say, because  dentists have managed to make it almost impossible to get rid of a toothache without having to go to a dentist, who always, after grotesquely overcharging for a filling or a pulled tooth, then comes up with a "plan" to extract more boat and Jaguar payments from the hapless consumer.  Dentists have made it illegal to obtain ANTIBIOTICS to stop a toothache for their own profit.

It is fortunate that they cannot get away with this outside the US. Everyone who goes abroad should stock up on antibiotics unless they want to be fucked over by some damned dentist.

I think a dentist who accumulates so much money from people's pain and gum disease that he can pay $55,000, plus airfare to shoot a lion in Africa does not deserve any respect from me.  But then again, neither does Joseph Mugabe, who is guilty of even more evil than any dentist I can imagine.

The good thing is that Zimbabwe has eliminated lion hunting licenses.









many species that are in danger, particularly elephants, rhinos and other beasts being destroyed for their tusks, horns and other parts. President Obama was right on his African trip to forgo the usual safari and instead to announce new legal measures to curtail the transport and sale of elephant ivory in the United States.

The fury over Cecil’s death should also prompt some soul-searching among hunters who pursue African game, a large number of whom are well-to-do Americans. In one particularly dreadful practice called “canned” hunting, private ranches raise lions purely to trot them out to be killed by “hunters” for trophies.

Australia has banned the importation of trophies from “canned” hunts, and Botswana for one has banned lion hunting (Zambia, however, lifted its ban on lion and leopard hunting in May). Such measures could help reduce the kills, but the survival of many species will require far more shared responsibility than nations and communities are currently willing to accept.
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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2015, 11:17:53 PM »
I think a dentist who accumulates so much money from people's pain

typical bullshit logic...probably from a liberal
who never would complain about Hillary speaking fees
my dentist has made tons of money from me
but it's my own damn fault for eating all those sweets
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2015, 12:19:50 AM »
Hillary's speaking fees are not at all the same as dentist's charges.

No one NEEDS to hear Hillary speak. When people are in pain, they DO need a dentist.

Just like no one NEEDS to watch a football game or see a film. So I do not complain about what actors or athletes are paid. They serve a rather minor function in society and we probably could get along without the NBA, the NFL or MGM or United Artists pretty well.

I do not think that I could ever conceivably need to hear Hillary speak. Hillary can charge whatever she wishes, but her speaking is not essential to anyone.
 My dislike of dentists transcends politics. I have had some decent dentists over the years, but all but one were students in dental colleges.
Private practice dentists I have met in Miami I have not liked at all, and have never seen any of them more than once.

It is also true that regularly scheduled dental work actually causes you to have more toothaches and cavities. The body has a way of combating dental plaque problems and dental cleanings are like fake fingernails: the more work you have done, the more work you will need to have done.

I remember that when I lived in West Virginia, I had a filling fall out, and it really, really hurt. None of the four dentists would give me an appointment, but neither would they give me a prescription for antibiotics. So it hurt like hell for about a week, and eventually I found a dentist 40 miles away that gave me a prescription and fixed the filling.

Incidentally, I had another filling fall out about 12 years ago, and I took some penicillin I imported from Spain, washed it out really good with peroxide and mouthwash and put a temporary filling there that I bought in a drugstore. Something called Dentemp Custom, And so far, it has never bothered me again.  The last time I went to a dentist, he proposed a crown, and made an appointment to install it for some outrageous amount. So I called him a week later and cancelled, and I have never seen an American Dentist since. That was nine years ago.  I did have some dentures repaired in the DR and it cost me about $90.

Do it yourself dentistry is a not always a solution, but can be a solution some of the time.

As for the dentist who shot Cecil, it will be interesting to see if he actually pops up and if they will actually extradite him to Zimbabwe.
I am pretty sure if someone the US did not like were to hide himself in Zimbabwe, they would apply seriously pressure  on Mugabe's government to comply, but I somehow doubt that it will work the other way.

I do not have a position on this, but I am laying in a supply of popcorn.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 12:35:20 AM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2015, 05:18:33 PM »
Hillary's speaking fees are not at all the same as dentist's charges. No one NEEDS to hear Hillary speak.
When people are in pain, they DO need a dentist.

Although I totally agree NO ONE needs to hear Hillary....lol
Are you actually arguing that Doctors of Dentistry in the United States should not be allowed to be well paid?
(plus how do we know this dentist is not making big money from investments apart from dentistry?)
You think we need the nanny-state to implement "income control" of dentists?

It is also true that regularly scheduled dental work actually causes you to have more toothaches and cavities. The body has a way of combating dental plaque problems and dental cleanings are like fake fingernails: the more work you have done, the more work you will need to have done.

Total bullshit.
Preventive dental care pays dividends.
Only fringe elements would proclaim less regular dental checkups is better for oral dental health.
Unattended dental problems can and do development into larger dental problems.
I used to postpone seeing my dentist and ended up with major problems.
Now I get regular cleanings/x-rays, and gum prevention treatments
and because of this my last few years have been free of any major dental problems.
But really if you don't believe in active preventive dentistry...I don't give a shit....2EachHisOwn.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 05:34:50 PM by Christians4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2015, 05:36:58 PM »
It not only pays dividends, it makes boat payments, Lexus payments and very occasional large sums to hunt wild lions.

Dentists of course see themselves as actual serious medical professionals.  If you see the dentist several times a year, yeah, well maybe you won't have problems. But then you might. Note that not one damned thing a dentist ever does is guaranteed. Mt Goodwrench at least had a warranty.

Dentists use pain to profit off of their patients. The same is true of optometrist.

My Medicare plan suggested that I go to an optometrist for an eye exam. He was a jolly fellow and had the latest equipment, so he did not do the annoying thing where a machine blows at your eyeball. So he told me I had good eyesight for my age andf gave me a prescription. I even got a pair of glasses. They broke in about a week. I have only occasionally had the reading glasses (that is all the Rx I need) break. They cost $5 and last at least two years.  The guy also had a catalog of frames that I could buy if I paid more. The cheapest titanium frames were over $250. Now I know that titanium is not rare, so I checked prices online for frames, and after fiddling about for an hour or so found Titanium frames with my Rx for $45. Delivered. With my prescription. So I bought them and they are indeed great.  Medicare paid the optometrist $75 for my visit, so why is the markup so hideously high?

Because that is the nature of capitalism. Keep the customer ignorant and gouge him all you can. My new glasses took 4 days to arrive, and they are very durable and did not have a Made in China label, either.

Capitalists LOATHE competition. I never buy anything that is relatively lightweight without checking the price online. It is is relatively heavy, I check Craig's List for a good used whatever. I am very, very rarely disappointed. I have never bought a new refrigerator, stove, or car. Computers, fortunately are lightweight. I did buy a good used one once, and it lasted me for three years. It still works, but it wouldn't run  Windows 7.


"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2015, 07:14:18 PM »
It not only pays dividends, it makes boat payments, Lexus payments and very occasional large sums to hunt wild lions.

yes it's really pretty simple
people that solve complex problems tend to make good money
people that do things that the masses can do usually make less money

Because that is the nature of capitalism. Keep the customer ignorant and gouge him all you can.

Ha Ha...you don't know what you are talking about.
Less than an hour ago I called a client to tell them we most likely could not do something they requested.
We could have attempted it and made a nice profit....but I knew we could not do the job.
So instead of "playing dumb" and attempting and charging them for the attempt...
I called and told them I didn't want to waste their money.
That builds loyalty....treat people the way you want to be treated and it's a win/win.
About a month a go I booked a trip with a fishing guide
The guide called me the other day and said
"I cant take your money....the fish are not biting...lets reschedule for next Spring".
I appreciated his honesty...
You need to quit painting with such a broad brush and equating capitalism with dishonesty


Capitalists LOATHE competition.

Capitalism IS COMPETITION!
I am a capitalist and I love competition.
I say to competition....BRING IT ON!
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 07:20:29 PM by Christians4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2015, 08:48:41 PM »
Bully for you!

Tell the generic drug makers, some of them have quadrupled their prices recently.

There are a lot of medicines that you cannot get without a prescription, and there is no reason for this.
Potassium Chloride, a salt substitute prescribed to people taking "water" pills, cannot be sold in the US in pill form.
It is a common chemical KCl, which needed no serious research and development.
It is pretty expensive as a pill. It is available in any supermarket as a granular salt substitute for a fraction of the price.

Why do they do this? To make big bucks. When I asked a pharmacist to sell me KCl over the counter, he looked at me like I had asked for heroin.  "That's a prescription drug!", he said. "It's part of the cocktail they use for lethal injections!"

Laws are used to force people to pay vastly more than is necessary all the time.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2015, 01:01:41 PM »
There are a lot of medicines that you cannot get without a prescription, and there is no reason for this.
Laws are used to force people to pay vastly more than is necessary all the time.

Laws (GVT) forces people to pay more!

Crony Capitalism sucks.

"Crony capitalism is a term describing an economy in which success in business depends on close relationships between business people and government officials. It may be exhibited by favoritism in the distribution of legal permits, government grants, special tax breaks, or other forms of state interventionism"
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2015, 01:19:10 PM »
A survey of the people and companies that donate to PACs and political candidates will show that a huge majority of them want some sort of special favor to bolster their business.

How about this one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II

$143 million for one airplane. I wonder if Lockheed Martin donates money so they will but even more of these things.

And it is not like we do not have airplanes that do nearly everything this one does.

They have recently ordered ten of them for one of our country's THREE air forces?

Why do we need THREE airforces? Last I heard, we only have one atmosphere.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2015, 04:25:04 PM »
The bigger the gvt....the more power gvt has....the more people will want to buy influence by any means.

Less gvt equals less people attempting to by influence

This ain't exactly brain surgery!
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2015, 04:32:33 PM »
The bigger the gvt....the more power gvt has....the more people will want to buy influence by any means.

BINGO.....isn't ironic that the very thing they support facilitates the very thing they claim to abhor
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2015, 05:27:26 PM »
What I particularly abhor is inequality, and that is what unregulated capitalism produces.

If you allow corporations and fatcats to buy elections, all we will have is even more crony capitalism.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2015, 06:41:32 PM »
There is no right to financial equality.  Government has no business trying to force such an act, that can never be accomplished in a capitalist economy.  You can abhor it all you want, but that's not your concern, and worse, its not your business to try and take away someone else has earned, to give it to someone else who hadn't, just to make you feel better

And when you push for bigger and bigger Governmet, you get exactly that...more and more fat cats and lobbyiests, buying their little corner of everything
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2015, 06:50:04 PM »
No, you don't. Not if you do it right. No one buys elections in Sweden.
There are ombudsmen that advocate for the consumer, and they have actual power.

Government works best when of is Republican't-Free.

No country in Europe spends even a fraction of the time and money we do in this country.
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sirs

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Re: How about Cecil the Lion vs the Fugitive Dentist?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2015, 07:03:43 PM »
Sweden is NOT America.  Sweden does NOT have a U.S. Constitution.  The bigger Government becomes the more influnece that can be bought by your abhorent "rich folk".  And because of the expanse, the easier it is to hide, within the mass of bureacracy

Precisely that which you supposedly despise, is made far worse by the size of Government you push for
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle