Author Topic: TOP DEM PROF SAYS "I'VE NEVER SEEN ANY POLITICIAN WITH BETTER IMMIGRATION PLAN!"  (Read 10706 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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If includes ending the birthright citizenship, than that involves changing the Constitution.
The president cannot amend the Constitution.
If Trump things he can do this, he is too ignorant to be president.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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If includes ending the birthright citizenship, than that involves changing the Constitution.
The president cannot amend the Constitution.
If Trump things he can do this, he is too ignorant to be president.
.

This does not necessarily require a constitutional amendment.
The 14th can be interpreted in different ways....ya know....a living breathing document like Obama likes to say.

The 14th Amendment's citizenship clause states: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." The purpose of the clause was to guarantee citizenship to freed slaves and their descendants after the Civil War. Those who challenge birthright citizenship argue that illegal immigrants are not subject to U.S. jurisdiction, and so neither are their American-born children; these children, they argue, cannot therefore automatically become citizens. Since there was no such thing as an illegal immigrant at the time of the amendment's adoption, immigration was not restricted or regulated back then, opponents also contend that the amendment does not apply to illegal immigrants.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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All persons born in the United States means precisely what it says: there is no other possible interpretation.
In the 1860's, the US was actively encouraging immigration.

Trump cannot change the Constitution: no president has the power to do this.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Trump cannot change the Constitution: no president has the power to do this.

It absolutely can be changed without touching the constitution. Among developed nations, only the U.S. and Canada still offer automatic citizenship to children born on their soil. Not a single European country follows the practice. The evidence is that this entitlement encourages a booming birth tourism business (which undermines our immigration objectives) and virtually guarantees that the number of people in the country illegally will continue to grow.

"The Immigration and Nationality Act defines Birthright Citizenship in the United States, but there is also a clause in the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. While the Supreme Court has interpreted the latter Birthright Citizenship clause as it applies to legal immigrants, it has never done so with regard to illegal aliens. The United States and Canada are the only developed nations that grant automatic citizenship so expansively to children born within their borders. Anyone born in the United States is considered an American citizen regardless of whether the parents are U.S. citizens, legal residents, temporary visitors, or illegal aliens in the U.S.

Automatic citizenship is granted according to federal statute, not the 14th Amendment, so critics of the policy argue that this could be reformed by changing or repealing the statute outright. Veteran legal scholar John Eastman believes that Members of Congress who passed the 14th Amendment never intended that it include Birthright Citizenship in its current form. Eastman points to the wording of the 1866 Civil Rights Act as providing the key to the meaning of the 14th Amendment and the intent of the Framers. The act provides that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States." This formulation makes clear, Eastman writes, that any child born on U.S. soil to parents who were temporary visitors to this country and remained a citizen or subject of the parents' home country "was not entitled to claim the birthright citizenship provided by the 1866 Act." But for now, the constitutional meaning of the amendment as it applies to illegal immigrants will remain uncertain until the Supreme Court interprets it. The Birthright Citizenship Act, H.R. 140, would amend the Immigration and Nationality Act - not the Constitution - to consider a person born in the United States "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States for citizenship at birth purposes if the person is born in the United States of parents, one of whom is: (1) a U.S. citizen or national;  (2) a lawful permanent resident alien whose residence is in the United States; or (3) an alien performing active service in the U.S. Armed Forces."
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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It cannot be changed, and it will not be changed without a Constitutional Amendment.

Your argument is totally without merit.

Even it a law to end birthright citizenship were passed, Trump could not under any circumstances, do more than sign a law that Congress has already passed.
After that, it would surely be challenged and would go to the Courts, which would take more than one term to do, and then would be rejected on final appeal, if there was one.

Trump's Plan sucks, it can never work, and will never work.

Let us also consider that Trump has very poor skills at reaching agreement with other people in power: he only knows how to throw public tantrums and do stupid  junior high trick like give out Lindsey Graham's phone number and badmouth Megyn Kelly. People refeuse to be intimidated by this sort of shot and then refuse to cooperate with this monumental blowhard, and nothing gets done. He cannot say "You're Fired" to Congress.

A person would have to be an ignorant toady or a blithering idiot to serve on a Trump Cabinet.

Trump divides people into two categories: Winners and Losers. He is the only winner: everyone else that doies not agree with Trump, is a loser.

That would include you, eventually.

While Trump is flailing about trying to order Congress around, Texas, yes, your Texas is becoming more and more Hispanic. The days when fools like Dolph Briscoe, Juniorbush and Ted Cruz can be elected by this changing population are rapidly passing. Your cause has been lost for a long time, and Trump could only make it worse by his incompetence. Your ideas of secession are fantasies.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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  We have always called ourselves "Americans".
   Why shouldn't we convert all the citizens of these two continents to citizens of the United States?

     The ultimate expression of the Monroe doctrine.

     

sirs

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It cannot be changed, and it will not be changed without a Constitutional Amendment.

Your argument is totally without merit.


And still more demonstration of just how wrong our illustrious professor can get.  No, this does not require a Constitutitonal amendment.  I'm no big fan of Trump, although I know precisely why he's getting such a pulse in the polls.  But the issue regarding the 14th was specific to the children of slaves.  That was clearly its intent.  The fact Government has allowed it to be applied to illegal immigrants is regrettable, but fixable....not with a Constitutional convention, but either thru clarifying legislation, or the courts making its interpretation more clearly. 

The notion this requires a Constitutional convention, while the same group applauds the executive actions of Obama regarding immigration and the gun control is truly breathtaking
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 01:11:07 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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It would not require a constitutional convention, it would require a constitutional amendment.

And the odds that it would get one are quite small. If they were better, the amendments of this sort already proposed would have been endorsed by at least one of the major parties. But they haven't. 

This country does, in fact NEED immigrants. That is how we have managed to make so many advances in computers and engineering, by luring people from India and China and Europe and of course the other countries in this hemisphere who want to be Americans and want their children to also be Americans.

Pass that amendment, and suddenly, Canada has a major advantage over us. It already has an advantage, because Canada requires far less paperwork and documentation.



You may continue to live in the fantasy world where words do not mean what they say. I could give a rat's ass, because you are wrong and time will prove that you are wrong.

The rest of Trump's policy is okay, except it is very vague in parts.

If it depends on revoking  birthright citizenship it is Dead on Arrival.


The Constitution says nothing at al, about marriage, but you yutzes ranyed on and on about hos the dictionary is the ultimate authority about how all marriages must be between a man and a woman.

Now the shoe is on the other foot, and the Constitution suddenly does not mean what it says, it must be "interpreted" to mane what you clowns want it to say.

Here is what will really happen:
Congress will pass no law revoking birthright citizenship. The votes are not there. It they had been there, they would have passed it already and made Obama veto it just for show and to prove that they are great swinging dicks, as they did when the revoked the ACA a bazillion times with no results.

In the very unlikely case that they did pass such a law, it would immediately be challenged, and it would not be implemented finding a ruling of the Court. In the interim, thousands of Chinese, Indians, and others would try to get in before it is too late and the number of "anchor babies" would quadruple or more.

The changes are that the lower courts would rule it unconstitutional and the Supremes would refuse to even hear it.

If they did hear it, they would rule  it unconstitutional, because it says what it says: anyone born here is a fucking citizen,  and even MORE "anchor babies" would be born as citizens.

Then you furriner-hating clowns, yokels and hicks would try to get a constitutional amendment passed, but by then there would be even less of a chance of it passing.
Every years the number of people who oppose this sort of exclusionary stuff are greater. I will admit that there are some advantages to passing such an amendment, just as there advantages to me having my own VTO autogyro, but realistically this is not going to happen. There is a reason why no such law or amendment has not been passed: too many members of the Oligarchy oppose it, for many different reasons.


 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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A Constitutional amendment requires a Convention to apply it.  Point being, this does not require either

And no one claimed we don't need immigrants.  We simply need them TO FOLLOW OUR LAWS
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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This is not about immigrants following our laws. Or are you advocating aborting a fetus that is about to be born in the USA, to deny it citizenship?

Trump might want to sell its parts to help pay for that wall.

Or would you wait for it to be born and deport the baby, and make it sue to obtain its citizenship?

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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This is 100% about illegal immigrants following our laws.  And no, any child can be born to an illegal immigrant.  It simply doesn't automatically make them a U.S. Citizen.  That never was the intention of the 14th amendment, which is why a court ruling is all that's necessary to better interpret the 14th
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 02:37:27 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Citizenship is defined in the main body of the Constitution as a birthright. It was certainly not revoked by an amendment that made even more people citizens.

You are simply full of shit and read too much rightwing crap.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Citizenship is.....and the 14th was specific to FREED SLAVES IN THIS COUNTRY, THAT WERE BROUGHT HERE AGAINST THEIR WILL.  Not to illegal immigrants purposely ignoring our immigration laws & coming in. 

The 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 to protect the rights of native-born Black Americans, whose rights were being denied as recently-freed slaves. It was written in a manner so as to prevent state governments from ever denying citizenship to blacks born in the United States.

But in 1868, the United States had no formal immigration policy, and the authors therefore saw no need to address immigration explicitly in the amendment
.


But this can all be cleared up simply by a court ruling
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 02:36:39 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Okay, since it is soooo simple and the "precedent" you cite is 150 years old, why do you suppose that no court has ruled on this?  This country has tried to keep out Jews, Slavs, Japanese, Chinese and others for decades since 1865.

Do you really believe that no court has ever been asked this question?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."