Ben Carson thinks Charles Darwin was encouraged by SATAN?

[sirs]

God can actually violate the laws of physics? 

YES......you're finally catching on.  And yes, I know much about Astronomy, as it's a fascinating area of interest of mine.  Which includes that the universe is far too massive for God to have limited his creations to just this puny little planet.  But that's for another thread

[Xavier_Onassis]

What would be the purpose of God creating the universe in the first place, if he is going to violate the Laws of Physics which he also created?

First God creates Adam and Eve, knowing that if he puts that one tree there and tells them not to eat the fruit, they will eat it.

Then he allows things to progress until people have screwed up so badly that there are only four couples of humans worth saving, so he somehow funds enough water to drown all the people except those eight who share a boat so large it will hold two of every animal on earth and enough to feed them for over a month.

But no, that is not screw up, either.

[sirs]

That's the kind of question that would fit....IF we were having a discussion about science.   But as it continues to be beating you over the head with, Christianity isn't about physics, it's about faith.  Laws of Physics don't apply to God.     

[Xavier_Onassis]

If we are referring to the Magi following a star the way a donkey follows a carrot, then we are referring to the Laws of Physics, but being changed from the norm by God.
The usual way to navigate by stars is by heading in the direction of the same star in the sky every night. This was made much easier by the astrolabe, but thought the Greeks invented these c. 150 BC, they were uncommon outside of the Hellenistic world. The Bible makes no mention of how exactly the Magi followed the Star od Bethlehem.

The usual description that I have read is that the Star was directly over Bethlehem and the Magi simply headed toward it. But real stars do no do this, being as they are light years away.

Everything on this planet is about science. Nothing is exempt.

[sirs]

No, we are not.  We are talking line of sight.  Nothing more.  The star was simply directly over, as it relates to line of sight.  Our sun can be directly over the skyline of LA, depending on the direction I'm looking.  The planet Venus can apear directly over Mt Baldy, depending on the time of the year, and the direction I'm looking

ONE MORE TIME, this is faith, not physics.  God transcends everything YOU deem as logical or natural or science related.  YOU are not God.  YOU do not have the power of God, who created everything.  YOU don't get to limit what God can and can't do.  Sorry, YOU are nothing but a creative after thought. 

[Xavier_Onassis]

So how did the Magi know when to stop? Had they continued westward, they would have arrived at the coast of the Mediterranean.
The area around Bethlehem is rather mountainous. Travel in a straight line is impossible. If you ask your camel to leap 20 feet downward, he probably would turn around and spit in your eye. PTUI!  Ugh! Not pleasant! But better than  leaping down 200 feet on the back of a camel.

The Bible was unclear about exactly how the Star showed them the way, but apparently is was not a perfect method, as the Bible also says they visited King Herod, presumable in Jerusalem, and that caused Herod to order all the male babies killed.  This in turn caused the Holy Family to go hide in Egypt. for a while.

One thing about killing babies is that it REALLY PISSES PEOPLE OFF. They rant and rave and complain a LOT. But in this particular case,. there is no reference to
Herod, who was a satrap of the Romans, was a pretty nice guy compared to Pontius Pilate, killing lots of , or even open, baby.
 Odds are someone made that up because of previous baby killings ordered by ''Pharoah'', the nasty king of Egypt back in Moses' time. Such is the stuff of legends.

[sirs]

So how did the Magi know when to stop?

When they reached Bethlehem, where they were told they'd find a child in a manger.  LINE OF SIGHT, remember?   Oy vey.     

[sirs]

It's all about line of sight, not mere physics.  Here are some examples with the moon

[Xavier_Onassis]

Take a look at a topographical map of Palisrael, then imagine a line of sight trip from Iran across the desert to Jerusalem and on to Bethlehem. Observe that a straight line trip is not possible. Also, there are some mountains involved.

If the Magi were following a line of sight trajectory toward Bethlehem, they would not stop in Jerusalem. If they stopped in Jerusalem, then could be to acknowledge their presence to Herod. Of course, the star is not mentioned in other historical sources, but if they were following the star, they did not need to stop and ask for directions, did they?

The story apparently requires them to speak with Herod so he can order mass infanticide. Mass infanticide is needed so that this tale sounds properly Biblical. (Like the plague wiping out all the male Egyptian male children in the Exodus story).

By the way, the Egyptians were very prolific in chronicling their history in tombs and such and we can now decipher their hieroglyphics. Strangely, there is no mention of the Seven Plagues or the mass exodus of the huge number of  Hebrews written anywhere by Egyptians. They would surely have put their bias on it (evil witchcraft or something like that)  but so far no one has found any mention of this momentous event.

Or the tale of evil Herod ordering the killing of male babies. People get really incensed when a ruler does that. It surely would have been mentioned had it really happened.

There was probably an Exodus, but with many fewer Hebrews than were mentioned.

[sirs]

You're not getting it xo......maps are irreverent.  If God wanted he could keep a star stationary in the direction of Bethlehem, as long as he wanted.  He could move it, however he wanted, to provide safe passage for the Wiseman to reach Bethlehem, day or night.  This isn't about physics, since God transcends physics and your puny limitations he must have to abide by

[Xavier_Onassis]

You are the one that doesn't get it. God could have prevented Mohammad from being born or thinking he was a prophet and saved a lot of lives, all of which would have been known to him if he could foresee the future. What Earthy divine purpose did Jim Jones and his crazy massacre serve?

Since you will believe anything they tell you in the Bible, there is no point to this.

[sirs]

LOL...I love when you keep proving my point.  If God wanted to, he could showcase himself right now, to the whole world.  If he wanted to, he could manipuate everyone's mind into believing in him alone.  Remove this whole faith notion, altogether. 

THIS IS ABOUT FAITH, however.  God set it up so we would have the ability to choose to believe.....or not.  To act in a Christ-like way.....or not.  Chrisitianity is founded on FAITH, not physics, not science, and especially not your inability to grasp such a concept, with your puny human driven parameters that God must adhere to     

[Xavier_Onassis]

Your concept of God is simply illogical.  Belief in the Tooth Fairy, astrology, numerology and witch craft is also based on faith.

[sirs]

My concept of God is no different than any other Christian.  Nice to know that you think Obama believes in such things as the tooth fairy & witch craft though

[Xavier_Onassis]

It is your belief that all Christians believe as you do. I don't make blanket judgements about religion. Most people do not discuss the magical and miraculous aspects of Christianity, because there is nothing to be gained from it even if you persuade them of your own view.

I don't think that Obama believes in the tooth fairy or witchcraft.

The Old Testament says. '' Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.'' So I suppose you would say that you also believe in witches, on account of it being in the Book.
The same is true of demonic possession, as in the case of the Gaderine swine.

Most people who claim to believe the entire Bible is true have not actually READ the thing. They figure that over the last twenty years or so, their preacher has covered it all. But such is not the case. Preachers have guides to writing sermons, and vast chunks of the Bible are not mentioned. I have yet to hear a sermon on the sin of wearing clothes woven of two different fibers. But Linsey-Woolsy was clearly a nono in the OT.