Technology Will Leave Workers "Out In The Cold"

[Xavier_Onassis]

And again, no, it does not.

In an economy in which human labor is increasingly unnecessary, society will HAVE TO do something to allow the majority of people to survive. It might consist of subsidizing art or the study of the physical world, or dedication to the extension of knowledge. There are an infinity of things we do not know, after all.

But to just declare that people have no to right to a job or an income is simply inhumane and barbarous.

If this is not done, then there will be a massive upheaval of the population which will benefit no one.

[Plane]

  There might be a lot that can be done , but this probably does not include inventing a right to a job or a guaranteed income.

     There is not even a guarantee that there  will be a capable guarantor.

   The people who have a needed skill will be needed for that skill and automation will enable their skill to increase productivity.

      The wise will learn such a skill, and will produce some surplus that can be taxed.

       As long as there are enough of them.

       Alternately we could pay people for useless effort or nothing at all, meaning that it is not really wise to learn a difficult skill, why undertake such strain when the world owes each one a living?

     With this alternative the number who do truly productive work and have a taxable surplus can be minimized, the number who consume more than they produce can be maximized.

     Can't we already see that we are very dependent on the five percent that pay fifty percent of all taxes? What is the best way to make this worse?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Many of the top 1% have not worked for generations. They only consult with their lawyers and brokers. Miami and Palm Beach county are full of these types.

The fact it is that all  citizens that are not seriously disabled  should have a shot at earning enough to live a decent life for themselves and their families.

Those who say that the minimum wage should not exist at all,  and that some people should be paid less than what it costs for them to live indoors and not do their grocery shopping at the dumpster are simply jerks and should be ignored.

This country is prosperous enough for all to live a decent life. That should become out=r primary concern.

[sirs]

And again, no, it does not.

And again, it does.  No one has a "right" to a job.  Period.  You can rationalize all you want, there still is no right.  And the UN has no right to try and supersede our Constitutional freedoms.  Period

[Plane]

Many of the top 1% have not worked for generations. They only consult with their lawyers and brokers. Miami and Palm Beach county are full of these types.

I think you will find the people you just described to be a minority , even in the 1%

The fact it is that all  citizens that are not seriously disabled  should have a shot at earning enough to live a decent life for themselves and their families.

Ok that seems like a good aspiration.

Those who say that the minimum wage should not exist at all,  and that some people should be paid less than what it costs for them to live indoors and not do their grocery shopping at the dumpster are simply jerks and should be ignored.

This country is prosperous enough for all to live a decent life. That should become out=r primary concern.

There is nothing about the mini wage law that grantees you will have a job at all.
Rather , it guarantees that if you cannot produce for your employer something above this ever rising minimum you will be unemployable.
The minimum wage will help landlords as a class, for the poor it is really just a cruel joke.

[Xavier_Onassis]

It is not really about what a person can produce. It is about the profit that can be be made off the labor of the employee. If one person can make $20 for an hours labor and another $30, the more productive will get the job.  The minimum wage is whether he will be paid $7.50 or $10.

[Plane]

It is not really about what a person can produce. It is about the profit that can be be made off the labor of the employee.

You need to elaborate more , I can't see the difference in this distinction.

 If one person can make $20 for an hours labor and another $30, the more productive will get the job.  The minimum wage is whether he will be paid $7.50 or $10.

The minimum wage sets a real floor on all employment, it would be foolish to hire someone for $15 per hour who could only produce for the company $16 per hour.

Eliminating jobs for the marginal may not seem wrong if the plan is to replace the jobs with the dole, but this eliminates a lot of dignity too.

There are a lot of people who would like to work but who are not highly skilled nor heads of households, is it really bad to employ teens in basic jobs?

[Xavier_Onassis]

The minimum wage sets a real floor on all employment, it would be foolish to hire someone for $15 per hour who could only produce for the company $16 per hour.

It would be profitable.  If he worked for  year, that would be 2080 hours, and the company would bew $2080 better off.

[Plane]

The minimum wage sets a real floor on all employment, it would be foolish to hire someone for $15 per hour who could only produce for the company $16 per hour.

It would be profitable.  If he worked for  year, that would be 2080 hours, and the company would bew $2080 better off.

It would be a very unusual business that could get by on that sort of money, how many employees would it require at this rate to give the CEO a minimum wage job, fifteen?

It would also be a very unusual business that would have no more than a dollar an hour per employee as overhead cost. How many employees at one dollar an hour over their pay would you need to pay a warehouse light bill?

In our imaginations a business may get by on very narrow profit margins, but there is an actual university level study field devoted to this , so why is it such rare knowledge that the point of a job is the profit?

[sirs]

Bingo!

[Xavier_Onassis]

I meant a dollar an hour over the true cost after all expenses had been paid.
The fact is that many businesses have periods in which they pay out more than they take in.

There are rainy days, snowy days in which not one customer comes to by a new car or furniture or other items. Few businesses do the same amount of business each and every day. Who buys turkeys in April? Who buys snow tires in June?  Who repairs their AC in the dead of winter? Companies have to keep the employees on the payroll because they have to have them available.

[Plane]

I meant a dollar an hour over the true cost after all expenses had been paid.
The fact is that many businesses have periods in which they pay out more than they take in.

Their pay is a part of their true cost.
Where I work the overhead per man hour is more than any of us get paid, but this makes a poor argument for a raise.

You can't imagine that loosing money has a limit?

Where a person can generate $15 dollars for a company, he has a job that should pay him seven or nine, where he can generate fifteen dollars, but he must be handed all of it, he has no job.

A high minimum wage destroys the value of the dollar and reduces job availability.

If you want evidence that this is so , just try to remember back when the miniwage was low, and how many American teens worked summers at harvest, pumping gas, gathering turpentine and throwing hay. Jobs you can't find a teen doing here anymore, it just is too hard to find such a job and if you do the dollars you get are not worth the time.

[Xavier_Onassis]

No one pumps gas anymore, except where they must do so by law, in  Oregon.
I recall asking some old whiskerando for a job back when the minimum was a princely 80 ¢ an hour. He said "It depends on who pays for your training",  by which he meant that to work there I would have to work for free for some unspecified time. I asked around, the it turned out that the old bugger never paid any kid, ever.  He just liked to stay inside on those cold winters and let the kids shiver and do all his work.

[sirs]

and......................?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Not being an idiot, I did not bother with him again.
A couple of kids in my sister's class were ripped off by him, though.