Theater of war: IRAN

[Lanya]

According to this article, the plans are in the final stages.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17154.htm

[sirs]

 

[Plane]

With the exception of the Middle East, the war on Iran and the dangers of escalation are not considered "front page news."  All of which contributes to the real possibility that the war could be carried out, leading to the unthinkable: a nuclear holocaust over a large part of the Middle East. It should be noted that a nuclear nighmare would occur even if nuclear weapons are not used. The bombing of Iran's nuclear facitlities using conventional weapons would contribute to unleashing a Chernobyl type disaster with extensive radioactive fallout.



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True , but why do anything elese after you have done this?

This would be the work of hours and the Iranian back would be broken forever.

Who would want to invade?

Iran might not have realised how vunerable these collections of nuclear materael made it when they were collecting them , but it is too late to get rid of them now.


On the other hand , this is a 1995 plan , why would Bush be interested in useing a Clintonian plan?

[The_Professor]

Some might argue that Bush, by his actions, simply does not care about leaving a legacy, so why not go ahead and do what he feels is necessary, namely attacking Iran? Or, he may feel that he needs to attack them now before Congress constrains his war powers...

Realistically, how probable is this?

[Plane]

Some might argue that Bush, by his actions, simply does not care about leaving a legacy, so why not go ahead and do what he feels is necessary, namely attacking Iran? Or, he may feel that he needs to attack them now before Congress constrains his war powers...

Realistically, how probable is this?

I don't consider it likely , but it is true that we could do this and having a plan for it at the ready would not surprise me at all.

I would be disapointed in the Pentagon if there was not a plan for responding to every order of the president that was likely and a lot of plans for orders that were less likely.

[The_Professor]

I, too, consider this necessary, from a nation's state POV. It will be interesting to see if we actually do bomb them and, if so, what the fallout, political and environmental, might be.

I also seriously wonder if we have the proper ordnance to be able to do this. After all , Iran has had a while now to harden their facilities.

[Plane]

Fig. 2 The Pentagon has a growing collection of high precision conventional weapons capable of defeating hardened targets. In this sled-driven test, the GBU-28 laser guided bomb with its improved BLU-113 warhead penetrates several meters of reinforced concrete.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NEL20060212&articleId=1963

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/gbu-10.htm


http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/gbu-28.htm






During WWII the Germans built  lot of buried and hardened military resorces, so a bomb was invented that was penetrateing .

The operational version of the U.K. manufactured Tallboy was 252” (21’) long (with tail assembly), 38 inches at maximum diameter, had a hardened steel case thickness of more than 4 inches in the nose, then tapering to 1.25 inches near the rear of the bomb casing and was loaded with 5,200 lb of Torpex explosive making up 41% of the 12,622 lb total weight.  A special hardened steel plug was fitted into the nose of the casing.   Beginning in the first quarter of 1945, Tritonal (80% of TNT and 20% of Aluminum) was loaded into British bombs manufactured in the United States.

http://www.members.aol.com/nukeinfo2/

This is really a solved problem.

The unsolved problem is the resulting mess.

[Plane]

The unchanged, intact, and forgotten Lorient and St. Nazaire bunker bases opened to worldwide tourism in 2000.

http://www.historyarticles.com/wolves_2.htm


I had the wrong idea , the sub pens were not much damaged.

[The_Professor]

So, then, we apparently DO NOT have the ordnance?

[Plane]

So, then, we apparently DO NOT have the ordnance?

I canonly speak of what I learned last night in a web search.

We do have ordinance that can penetrate ,but penetration of that thickness of concrete like the subpens of the Natzi U-boats has never been defeated by such as far as we know .

I consider it quite possible that our  penetrating bombs have classified cousins that are even more penetrateing ,but maybe not , who would I ask?

Penetrateing the roof may not be the best choice , there are precision munitions that could fly into the frount door while deliverys were being accepted , collapseing the entrances and vents might be a lot neater for closeing the plant , killing the tecnical expertise , but not produceing extreme colateral damage .

[BT]

According to this article, it's a different plan.

I guess foreseeing the future isn't as easy as it sounds.


Israel seeks all clear for Iran air strike
By Con Coughlin in Tel Aviv
Last Updated: 12:30am GMT 25/02/2007



Cheney step the rhetoric against Iran
American armada prepares to take on Iran
Con Coughlin: Ready for war
Vicki Woods: Iraq inquiry could stop Iran war
In pictures: On board the USS Eisenhower
Audio: Damien McElroy on the deck of the US flagship
Israel is negotiating with the United States for permission to fly over Iraq as part of a plan to attack Iran's nuclear facilities, The Daily Telegraph can reveal.

To conduct surgical air strikes against Iran's nuclear programme, Israeli war planes would need to fly across Iraq. But to do so the Israeli military authorities in Tel Aviv need permission from the Pentagon.

advertisementA senior Israeli defence official said negotiations were now underway between the two countries for the US-led coalition in Iraq to provide an "air corridor" in the event of the Israeli government deciding on unilateral military action to prevent Teheran developing nuclear weapons.

"We are planning for every eventuality, and sorting out issues such as these are crucially important," said the official, who asked not to be named.

"The only way to do this is to fly through US-controlled air space. If we don't sort these issues out now we could have a situation where American and Israeli war planes start shooting at each other."

As Iran continues to defy UN demands to stop producing material which could be used to build a nuclear bomb, Israel's military establishment is moving on to a war footing, with preparations now well under way for the Jewish state to launch air strikes against Teheran if diplomatic efforts fail to resolve the crisis.

The pace of military planning in Israel has accelerated markedly since the start of this year after Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service, provided a stark intelligence assessment that Iran, given the current rate of progress being made on its uranium enrichment programme, could have enough fissile material for a nuclear warhead by 2009.

Last week Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, announced that he had persuaded Meir Dagan, the head of Mossad for the past six years and one of Israel's leading experts on Iran's nuclear programme, to defer his retirement until at least the end of next year.

Mr Olmert has also given overall control of the military aspects of the Iran issue to Eliezer Shkedi, the head of the Israeli Air Force and a former F-16 fighter pilot.

The international community will increase the pressure on Iran when senior officials from the five permanent of the United Nations Security Council and Germany meet at an emergency summit to be held in London on Monday.

Iran ignored a UN deadline of last Wednesday to halt uranium enrichment. Officials will discuss arms controls and whether to cut back on the $25 billion-worth of export credits which are used by European companies to trade with Iran.

A high-ranking British source said: "There is a debate within the six countries on sanctions and economic measures."

British officials insist that this "incremental" approach of tightening the pressure on Iran is starting to turn opinion within Iran. One source said: "We are on the right track. There is time for diplomacy to take effect."
 

[Plane]

What is the diffrence between allowing Israel to do this and helping them to do this?


If Isreli fighters took off from Iriqui bases they could carry more ordinance and have longer loiter times over target .

If they had US Aircraft along they could enjoy our AA jamming abilitys or even our stealth capacity for strikeing with absolutely no warning to reduce AA capability.


If we merely allow overflight are we less culpable for the result than if we assist? 

[The_Professor]

I am less worred about culpability than not allowing those whose judgement is suspect ( e.g. not favorable toward the U.S.) to possess nuclear weapons IF such an eventuality can indeed be prevented (which I doubt).