The problem with Trump

[sirs]

And ever one of those countries, has its budget being overwhelmed by healthcare costs.  Nor do they have the population of global committments we have either

And there will be no right to someone else's services.  We fight a Civil War to put that to bed

[Xavier_Onassis]

Get serious. No one is fighting any Civil War.

[sirs]

No one claimed we were, Dr Deflection.   Point being there is no right to healthcare.   There is no right for some medically trained person to have to care for you.  You have no right for someone else's services.   The war we fought was to put an end to plantation owners believing they had a right to the services of a slave

[Xavier_Onassis]

The government has the right to provide medical care, and no one is saying that medical personnel have to do it for free.

[Plane]

The government has the right to provide medical care, and no one is saying that medical personnel have to do it for free.

Your "facts" are bogus. Every industrialized country on the planet has universal healthcare. It should be declared to be a RIGHT.

Well , no.

It isn't a human right to be given a living , or a home , or healthcare.

It should be a right to work the land or hunt I guess, but it is an absent right.

If you want to argue that these things are good ideas , that they may be , even if they are not rights.

But why are we gaining rights to free cheese and medical care at the same time as we are loosing the right to speak freely , live and be free?

[sirs]

The government has the right to provide medical care, and no one is saying that medical personnel have to do it for free.

Again, your making my point.  Rights don't come from Government.  There is no such right to provide medical care.  And yes, forcing medical personal to provide basic healthcare is tantamount to forcing slaves to perform basic yard-care

[Xavier_Onassis]

Of COURSE rights come from government. They are the legal application of the culture.

I bet you think that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost want you to have the right to own a dozen AR-15s with huge ammo clips.
Well, they don't.

Rights come from society like it or not, that is the reality.

[sirs]

The rights & freedoms we have in this country do NOT come from the Government's willingness to be kind, since that directly translates into the Government's ability to abolish those rights, at any time, for any reason.  You may want to fixate on guns, since that's what you do best, when the Constitution and our rights/freedoms on a whole is the forest you're trying to set fire to.  Our rights are endowed, which means the Government can NOT simply absolve them from us, without our having committed serious crime(s).  And no, it's not a crime to NOT be a member of the Democrat party.

So, how's that quote of mine coming, where I claimed that it should be illegal to commit adultery or homosexuality?

[Xavier_Onassis]

The government is mandated by the Constitution to deliver the mails.
It hires people to do this. Postal workers are not slaves. They are free to woerk for FedEx or UPS or anywhere they choose.

If we have a national health service, it will be like the Post Office.  Healthcare workers will simply work for the government. If they no lie, the work for someone else. No European country enslaves doctors.
 

[sirs]

You're attempting to conflate rights/freedoms, with simple function of Government.  Healthcare is NOT a function of Government....never has been.  And I've seen how the Post Office works, with the massive waiting lines, and the hope your item gets to where it needs to go...unless you pay more for a "guarantee".  And that's simply mail.  Healthcare is a massively different animal, and one more time, is not a right

But I again thank you for where the effort is...to make more people beholden to Government, either by dependency or by employment.

[Plane]

  So you do not hold these truths to be self evident?

    Too many goose farmers proclaim every ones right to a feather bed.

     But the idea of natural rights is too simple to require adherence to any particular faith.

      What things ideas and actions  ,  a person must have to be a person   ,  should be considered as rights.

       The idea that there should be a right for a person to be the owner of himself , not to be the property or chattel of another person does not seem at first thought to be a difficult idea and must be one of the4 primary natural rights, but look what we had to go through to get that one straightened out.

      The reason to call medical care a right is that it is popular, at least it is popular as a promise.

   Some of the nations that have implemented this promise are broke now, yes some are doing this and are not broke , but I do not know which category we would fall into .

       How can a natural right of a person depend on the financial state of another person , or the financial state of a government or the financial state of a company?

          If I had a right to medical care , would I have a right to the best possible medical care, or the best affordable medical care?

       In Canada, England , Norway , all of the best of these social medicine countries , there are systems to prioritize or triage the delivery of treatments and allocate resources. Sometimes these things are panels , but they never call them death panels. These are just the guys that determine that Sam will get a Kidney and Jennifer will not.   

[Xavier_Onassis]

There are a higher number of people who do not get that kidney here in the US.

We have proven that as a country we can grow enough food to feed everyone.

We manage to keep everyone clothed and war  in the winter.

We can also keep everyone healthy. We don't do it because a few people hoard all the resources.

[sirs]

Health is not clothing.  And no, there isn't a "hoarding" of services either. 

It is an impossibility to "keep everyone healthy".  You think there's no sickness in England??  You think that all illness has been resolved in Canada??  Are you smokin some more of that stuff, again?

[Xavier_Onassis]

There is a hoarding of money. 58% of all new income goes to the top 1%

[sirs]

People EARN what they earn.  They don't horde anything, including healthcare.