I phone

[Xavier_Onassis]

The FBI simply has discovered, or thinks it has discovered, that there is a way to prevent the phone from erasing data after 10 tries.

If Apple has placed the data on the phone, they would have a case.

If Apple actually had a program to do this, then they could subpoena it

But this is not the case: they want Apple to write such a program. That is why I think this must go to a court of appeals.

My opinion is vastly more important to me than anyone else's.

[sirs]

The security feature IS part of the latest Apple phones.  Good gravy, how are you not paying attention?

[Xavier_Onassis]

They could make it in such a way that it could not  be hacked at all. The current model apparently in hackable.
 The can do the software equivalent of locking it and throwing away the key.

[sirs]

Point being, if would appear their latest i-phone was unhackable.   Feds now want apple to write them a program that bypasses the built in security.   We're going in circles here.   Bottom line is that Apple is in the right for defying the legal court order, and the Government is in the wrong for trying to force Apple's hand

[Plane]

 The FBI would be best off hacking it themselves , then if they can, not letting on .


For something to be totally unhackable seems impossible, but the difficulty can be extreme and so be practically impossible.

To me this depends a lot on how it is physically built.

If most of the memory is on a different chip than the CPU then the CPU can be separated from  the memory and decryption would be merely code breaking because the  command to erase would never be triggered by the new CPU.

It might even be simpler than that, suppose the command to erase was known, and the pins this had to energize were known, this connection could be physically cut and a circuit interposed that would pass any signal other than the erase command.


I think the FBI should buy a gross of these phones and play around with this sort of idea.

[kimba1]

I might be wrong but this is my experience and impression with computers. Hacking is not the problem it's obtaining information intact thats the tricky part. Apple has absolutely no reason to known how to do that or make thier devices keep it. Thiers a reason it has a cloud backup. Technology itself is not really design for permanent storage. Ex. Floppy disk

[Plane]

http://www.ecnmag.com/news/2016/02/how-apple-ended-governments-encryption-crosshairs?cmpid=horizontalcontent


The memory in the phone is probably a flash memory.

I don't know how integrated the  components are ,the more is on a single chip, the tougher it is to hack physically.

[Xavier_Onassis]

 The FBI would be best off hacking it themselves , then if they can, not letting on .


For something to be totally unhackable seems impossible, but the difficulty can be extreme and so be practically impossible.

To me this depends a lot on how it is physically built.

If most of the memory is on a different chip than the CPU then the CPU can be separated from  the memory and decryption would be merely code breaking because the  command to erase would never be triggered by the new CPU.

It might even be simpler than that, suppose the command to erase was known, and the pins this had to energize were known, this connection could be physically cut and a circuit interposed that would pass any signal other than the erase command.


I think the FBI should buy a gross of these phones and play around with this sort of idea.

=============================\
I can agree with this.  Perhaps the FBI is just lazy and/or incompetent.

[kimba1]

I honestly do not think fbi has that level of ability to hack phones. Remember they hire people for security not ability. This will make the talent pool abit smaller. Real life has very few garcia of the show criminal minds

[Xavier_Onassis]

I would think that the FBI at least SHOULD have some expert hackers, considering that phines have so much info on them.

[Plane]

  Aren't they arresting hackers al the time?

This might not be the way to get the best , but it is the way to get some well motivated .

[kimba1]

They still got to trust them with high clearance. Hackers with criminal leaning not always recruited like in the movie

[Xavier_Onassis]

I don't know that all hackers are criminals.

As I recall, Jobs and Wozniak got their capital by selling a free long distance telephone hacker device.

[Plane]

I had not heard that one.

If they were making some version of a Blue box they were breaking the law.

Even though one of the simplest ones was just a noisemaker that made the sound that a phone would recognize as a quarter in the slot.

Not legal to use , in some respects not legal to make.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Captain Crunch cereal at one time came with a bo'sun's pipe that could be used to call long distance for free, they say. When they discontinued this, a guy who called himself Captain Crunch invented an electric tone generator that served the same purpose.
 Jobs and Wozniak also made and sold a similar device and did not mention it until the statute of limitations had passed.

That is the story I heard.

There was a pay phone in Las Cruces, NM that you could make free long distance calls on if you clobbered it with a baseball bat. A bat was convenientky provided and lots of people made calls until someone clobbered it too hard.