Political Optics

[sirs]

- Clinton once had a massive double digit lead over Sanders in NY.  Now, while she still leads, those decreasing #'s are apparently looking bad for her image in her "home state".  So much so, she's had to go back to NY to try and shore up support.  And its laughable how she's supposedly the "better candidate" than Sanders at taking on Wall Street, when she's been the beneficiary of millions in donations from Wall Street, while Sanders is #1 on Wall Street's hit list.  But those optics......

- Trump's ongoing stance on abortion enters phase 6 apparently.  As in, his positions on this very prominent topic have gone from:
1) in 1999...."very Pro-choice, in every respect"
2) very anti-abortion, following an apparent "pro-life conversion
3) then proclaimed he would even "punish" women who have abortions
4) Clarification of #3, as released by his campaign
5) Laws are set, and we should just leave abortion alone, though "personally, he's pro-life"
6) Would pursue a "pro-life agenda via judicial appointments", with a goal of returning the issue to state legislatures
So, while it can be argued that some of thse latter stances are clarifications of one another, again, the political optics are.....less than stellar, to say the the least

[Xavier_Onassis]

Trump is perfectly logical, for a rare change.
If one assumes that abortion is murder, and murder is a crime, then a woman who aborts an unwanted fetus is a murderer. The doctor is merely a sort of hitman.
If we assume that murderers must be punished, then it would be typical to get the doctor to be given a deal in which he cops a plea and turns state's evidence on the murderous woman. It is typical to give hitmen lesser sentences to catch the actual mafioso who ordered the hit.

By the way, this is what is done in El Salvador: a woman who has a miscarriage must prove that it was not a self-induced abortion. Unless she can do that, she is sent to prison.

The faulty bit here is that a fetus is not a person and has no rights. Until birth it can be regarded as  a parasitic appendage.

Trump, ignoramus as he is,  was unaware that the Forced Birthers regard women who have abortions as victims of an evil murderous industry. The fact that the voluntarily sought out  the doctor and paid him money seems irrelevant to the Forced Birthers, who think that all women's bodies are property of the state and women have no right to claim their own bodies as their own,

[sirs]

What Trump is doing, is no different than most other politicians at this point...he's simply not as polished as most.  He's trying to placate certain constituencies, while still trying to be politically incorrect.  That's why all the different stands, depending on who and where he's talking to

Clinton does the same thing, but her attempts are far more condescending, as she tries to talk with a southern drawl, when in souther states, tries to talk "black", when in a black church, and so on.  It's all about casting the biggest voter net as possible.  What happens in that process however is the degradation of credibility & sincerity

And that's where the political optics, come into play

[Plane]

What Trump is doing, is no different than most other politicians at this point...he's simply not as polished as most.

Very well said.

I need to evaluate Trump in this insight.

He is still not my favorite, but my favorite still in the race is not free of this sort of flaw.

[Plane]

The faulty bit here is that a fetus is not a person and has no rights. Until birth it can be regarded as  a parasitic appendage.

No, this is the fault in your logic , not Trumps.

To claim that a person is not a person on account of his age, size, condition , color or any other consideration is a pretty wild leap from logic , to claim it is logical requires a much stronger argument than I have ever seen presented.

[Xavier_Onassis]

A fetus is not a person.

We have been through this already.

Someone asks your age,and you tell them the time from the day of your birth, not the day of your conception. No one is a person until they are born.

That is why women who have abortions  were never convicted of murder. Because a fetus cannot be murdered, only terminated.

Trump is a jackass, far worse than the worst tales about Hillary.

[sirs]

And your opinion on this matter has once again been weighed, measured, and found wanting

[sirs]

What Trump is doing, is no different than most other politicians at this point...he's simply not as polished as most. 

Clinton does the same thing, but her attempts are far more condescending, as she tries to talk with a southern drawl, when in souther states, tries to talk "black", when in a black church, and so on.  It's all about casting the biggest voter net as possible.  What happens in that process however is the degradation of credibility & sincerity

And that's where the political optics, come into play

[Plane]

A fetus is not a person.

We have been through this already.

Yes , we have been partway through this several times .

We are hung on this point , that a fetus is not a person in your opinion very firmly, but for no reason that can stand examination.

[Xavier_Onassis]

An egg is a pre-chicken, a fetus is a pre-human.

A woman has the rights to control her body. No government should be given that right,

Do you think the government has a right to control your gonads? I know I do not.

It is that simple.

[sirs]

An egg is a pre-chicken, a fetus is a pre-human.

Close...inside a fertilized egg is a chicken (technical term, baby chick)  Inside a fertilized ovum, is a human (technical/medical term, fetus).  Both of which are merely tiny versions, of what they're going to become

A woman has the rights to control her body. No government should be given that right,

Absolutely.  As in ANY person, man, woman, or child, has control over their body, even if being carried inside of another

Yes, it is that simple.

[Plane]

  There is a legal presumption that the living will wish to continue to live , thus it is not necessary to obtain permission from the unconscious to perform life saving medical procedures.

    If you really don't want life saving procedures make a DNR document while you are lucid and keep it where the paramedics who find you unconscious will find it.

    I am not sure , but I think this presumption extends to people who cannot communicate in English, so the Francophone and the Fetus ought to equally presumed to wish to live, until a translator can be obtained to eliminate any ambiguity.

Another point is that if a criminal by criminal act causes a pregnancy to be lost he might be accused of manslaughter or murder depending on the aggravating factors and the state where the jurisdiction defines the crime.

An egg is a pre omlette  much as a chicken is a pre-fricassee, our constitution defines neither as a person whose civil rights need to be respected.
Until our constitution was three quarters of a century old people with too much skin pigment were also not recognized as persons whose civil rights needed to be respected, ask Justice Taney.
This is not a flaw in the constitution, it is a rationalization of wrong in tricky semantics. Justice Taney argued that it was impossible to grant rights to black people as though they were white, imagine black people with the right to sue , earn money and carry weapons?
  Yet a mere amendment corrected this without changing the intent of the Constitution in any important way.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/doubts-over-confederate-symbols-put-a-chief-justices-statue-in-jeopardy-1441316439