Liberal dilemma

[Christians4LessGvt]

[sirs]

Ouch....a personification of political correctness, completely out of control

[Xavier_Onassis]

This is NOT a problem for me.
Islam is a backward religion. Like Christian fundamentalism. Like Orthodox Judaism.
I have NEVER met a Muslim that has told me that Gays should be punished in any way, let alone hanged.

[Plane]

This is NOT a problem for me.
Islam is a backward religion. Like Christian fundamentalism. Like Orthodox Judaism.
I have NEVER met a Muslim that has told me that Gays should be punished in any way, let alone hanged.

Since it seems a safe presumption that you are living, I also presume that you have not fallen into the hands of Isis, where their chief pride in in the purity of their Islam and their treatment of homosexuals is severe.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Yeah, right. Why would I be in Isis territory?  At any given moment, people are being persecuted for no good reason, Far too often, the CIA has had a hand in it. Indonesia when Sukarno fell, Chile when the goon Pinochet took over, Uruguay when the CIA sponsored a military takeover, Argentina in the Dirty War. Gays have been prosecuted by so-called Christians for centuries: Oscar Wilde and the man who broke the Nazi Enigma machine code, Alan Turing in the UK. I am not Gay, but seriously, Muslims are not the major anti-Gay people on this planet. The Ottoman Empire was certainly not hostile to Gays or Lesbians. Isis would not exist at all  if not for Juniorbush's and Cheney's stupid bungling. I will again remind you that I voted AGAINST those dastardly fools TWICE and you did not. I knew they would bungle, and I perceived that they would do it stupidly.

[sirs]

Wow...I can't keep track of how many deflections were attempted in that diatribe
- implying that one has to physically be in the Middle East to comprehend radical Islamic ideolgy
- CIA must be involved (tell me again, who's currently in charge of the CIA, and who appointed them)
- Christians prosecuted Gays before
- Muslims are not really the primary anti-gay people on the planet
- Its Bush/Cheney's fault

[Xavier_Onassis]

I clearly would have to be in the Middle East somewhere to fall into the hands of Isis, I imagine  that I would have to be gay for them to persecute me for that as well.

The CIA has been guilty of major screw ups all over the world, though perhaps not lately.

And the war in Iraq and what happened as a result of it  clearly WAS Juniorbush's and Cheney's fault.

[sirs]

I clearly would have to be in the Middle East somewhere to fall into the hands of Isis,

That was never the point now, which is why it was your first deflection attempt.  It's not about you falling into their hands.  It's about what they do to gays

I imagine  that I would have to be gay for them to persecute me for that as well.

See above...thus another deflection

The CIA has been guilty of major screw ups all over the world, though perhaps not lately.

Irrelevent...unless you have some evidence that connects them to radical muslim ideology, that's just another deflection attempt.  Throw something out there, and see if it sticks.  Poor approach in trying to defend a point you're trying to make

And the war in Iraq and what happened as a result of it  clearly WAS Juniorbush's and Cheney's fault.

ISIS strength & growth came about when OBAMA prematurely pulled our troops out.  Bush & Cheney even warned that would happen, if done. 

[Xavier_Onassis]

There would have been no Iraqi instability had Juniorbush and Cheney not mongered this dumb war and fought it so stupidly.

[sirs]

And I can just as easily speculate that Saddam could have sold some of his WMD, that he did have, to some AlQeada terrorists, who then smuggled it into America, launching & killing thousands in 1 attack.  Speculation is easy, when you don't have to support it with any facts

The war was actually fought extremely well, with a fraction of military lives lost, compared to other wars.  Post war plans were not ready to implement immediately, and the disbanding of the Iraqi army was a big mistake.  But the war itself was foght just the opposite of stupidly

[Xavier_Onassis]

The MILITARY decisions -- where to attack and when and how were done well. But the POLITICAL decisions-- disbanding the military and the de-Baathization as well as turning the country over to a bunch of Cato Institute clowns turned what could have been a short occupation into a raging civil war and religious battle.

The Bushies knew far too little about the language, cultures and religions of Iraq to accomplish what they planned. Rumsfeld and Feith were particularly horrid.

[sirs]

That's pretty much what I said....the war part was fought the polar opposite from stupidly.  Especially when the surge was introduced.  post war issues were another matter, but Obama ASSURED US that all was well, and why we could then prematurely remove our troops from the region......and thus came the rise of ISIS....thank you very much Obama

[Christians4LessGvt]

There would have been no Iraqi instability had Juniorbush and Cheney not mongered this dumb war and fought it so stupidly.

and Hillary not voted FOR it

[Plane]

Isis would not exist at all  if not for Juniorbush's and Cheney's stupid bungling.

Isis would not exist at all  if not for President Obama's stupid bungling.

May I remind you very gently , that there was no Isis at all until after President Obama declared victory in Iraq.

It was not there before President Obama's Cairo speech either.

It takes a convenient memory  to be a Democrat these days.

Who was Secretary of State when Isis was founded?
Did the Secretary of state at that time have any useful advice for the president?

[kimba1]

This is where it gets tricky and will likely not be acknowledge. Isis situation is about cultural beliefs and nothing about islam. Example the burqa. Unfortunately it impossible to explain how that.