Muhammed Ali

[Plane]

Don't run down Rumsfeld unless you can point out how his ideas were superseded by better ones with Obama or Clinton.

Rumsfeld was the idiot who decided on the anti-Baathist plan that resulted in a religious war and no police on the street.
That was far and away the stupidest feature of the Iraq invasion, at least other than deciding to invade on false evidence.

What you have not done is point out how Rumsfeld's ideas were superseded by better ones with Obama or Clinton.

  Take your time.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Cheney and Rumsfeld made a huge mess,

What you are asking for is a plan to put the toothpaste back in the tube, or to turn the bouillabaisse back into a fish.
It would be like inventing a rhyme for a fart.

[Plane]

No.

I am asking for what President Obama , or even Clinton did or even speculation on what President HRC would do, which would be just one whit more effective or just slightly less harmful.

I know this is very tough, because mostly they did pretty much the same.

[Xavier_Onassis]

he damage was done at the start. The invasion was unnecessary and wrong, but in addition it was very poorly planned.

[Plane]

  Meaning that you are not aware of any difference in the policies at all.

   Thank you.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I mean nothing of the sort.

[Plane]

  well

   That is how I understand it.

    If you knew how Rumsfeld's policies were shaped , and knew how President Obama's or Secretary Clintons policies were better, You are not compelled to elucidate, but you have been invited to.   

[Christians4LessGvt]

Plane... Hillary voted FOR invading Iraq!

Hillary was FOR overthrowing Khadfi that has led to Libyan chaos and death.

Hillary was FOR overthrowing Assad that has led to ISIS
and other Islamic Whack Jobs controlling large swaths of Syria.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I hardly think that any American politician could possibly have been FOR Assad, an archenemy of Israel. The hope was that the opposition to Assad would have been pro democratic.

I don't recall ANY American politician NOT being against Assad stepping down. Assad is an oppressive, lying jerk.

I don't recall even one US political figure that was FOR Qaddafi, or favored allowing Qaddafi to strafe his own citizens, Qaddafi was a bit of a nutjob.
The problem in Libya is that the US had no decent intelligence there, and neither did the Italians, the French or even the Israelis.

Isis, however, sprung up because of errors made by Cheney and Rumsfeld during the first months of the unnecessary invasion.

[Plane]

Isis, however, sprung up because of errors made by Cheney and Rumsfeld during the first months of the unnecessary invasion.

   This is a real stretch.

     Isis didn't exist at all before its golden opportunity, the great power vacuum, of President Obama doing exactly as he promised and withdrawing almost all American force from Iraq , on schedule.

     Doesn't your argument have a hole torn in it by president Obama, who declared the Iraq government a success ?

   President Obama's declaration of success happened during his own administration , after the Bush surge and after the further Obama surge. Opposition was well and truly quelled, and we have the presidents word on it.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Isis was simply in hiding, waiting for the time to strike.
Without Rumsfeld and Cheney, there would be no Isis.

[Plane]

Good point.
When was Isis founded?

Why was the proper time to strike , on President Obamas watch?

So shortly after President Obama declared victory complete?