The value of suffering

[Xavier_Onassis]

Well, sure, destroying the ecological balance would punish future generations.
But the tale of Adam Eve and the talking snake (who formerly had legs, until Phht! De Lawd removed them from him and all his offspring was not in any way about the ecological balance.

Jehovah said that if Adam ate the forbidden fruit, he would die. Well, Adam, according to the Bible, Adam lived NINE HUNDRED AND THIRTY YEARS. And we complain about death sentences that stretch out for 20 years. But those of us who came after Adam, well, they croak almost always before they turn 100, and not a one of them was guilty of eating any forbidden fruit.

Somehow after the Forbidden Fruit Tree was no longer needed as a character in this childish fable, it vanished and was heard of never again.

sirs claims that God is nonsensical because he does not have to make sense. What a cop-out!

There is no value to suffering. Pain has a purpose at times, though surely not all the time.
It is useful that we feel pain when we touch a hot griddle, so we don't burn our stupid hands off. But the pains arthritis have no reason to exist other than poor design.

[sirs]

Spoken with the absolute steadfastness of a true believing atheist....impressively trying to apply the concept of Science to a deity, that transends both science and human brain power, and since unable to make that connection, must conclude God doesnt exist.  One again, arguing a point no one is making, but apparently loves to spin his wheels, while proving absolutely nothing

[Xavier_Onassis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNgdO0CQAVw

[sirs]

Entertaining fodder?

[Plane]

Well, sure, destroying the ecological balance would punish future generations.
But the tale of Adam Eve and the talking snake ................

Everything ties together , but it helps to consider one bit at a time.


Choices made in the past do affect us now for good or ill, and things we do now will have to be coped with forevermore.

This is a general principal based on the single direction of time, and so the responsibility of the present is in the past and present, ....

That present is now the past and this present will be the past while we speak of it.


If Adam had a deal with God and didn't keep it, does this explain things about Adam , even if the story is so allegorical that Adam is not an individual?

[Xavier_Onassis]

How do you figure that Adam "had a deal" with God?
God had all the power, Adam had none.

Adam was no more than God's dog. If he disobeyed, he would be punished however God wanted to punish him.  There is no mention that the Ten Commandments were negotiated, either, or the Covenant between God and the Hebrews.

Adam was told that if he ate the forbidden fruit, he would die. But he lived over 900 years longer.
Later, Adam's descendants were not told that if they pissed off God, God would wash them all away. On other occasions, God does propose some sort of tit for tat.

You say I am an atheist, but that is not true. I just reject the God mentioned in the Bible, because no truly just entity could be such a jerk.
So God is not precisely truthful.

[sirs]

In other words....a true believing Athesist.  Embrace your cult     

[Xavier_Onassis]

I just don't believe YOUR God could exist.

[sirs]

Fine...I do.  So there.  And here's the best part, I'm not required to prove it to you, nor does God have anything to do with present Scientific method which trashes every one of your efforts to try and disprove him.       

[Christians4LessGvt]

[kimba1]

i believe i will be off topic but still do it.

i think since suffering ,pain or difficulties are a part of life so this means we must learn endure so that we can function . the flaw in how we deal with pain is to not address it so we can make it less painful. I often observed when people complain many folks would respond by saying I don`t want to hear it. our culture prefer to ignore pain and not address it.

lets just say very little problem solving involved in matter about suffering

[sirs]

While I don't advocate active suffering, I accept suffering, as in I don't question God as to when it occurs.  Without suffering, once can't fully experience the joy of being grateful or helpful or charitable

[kimba1]

I never expect god to directly solve anything in my life. Most problems in our life is in our control and we are responsible to deal with it. Sadly we are not aware we can .

[Christians4LessGvt]

Most problems in our life are in our control and we are responsible to deal with it. Sadly we are not aware we can .

wise words dr kimba!

[Xavier_Onassis]

There is a distinct difference between Mother Teresa and the Buddhists. The Buddhists speak of training oneself to live with suffering that can accompany life. Mother Teresa was gung-ho on suffering for its own sake. Not taking the money donated to her cause to give pain pills to her dying patients, but allowing them to suffer for the greater glory of God. The same sort of Middle Eastern nuttiness that induces monks and Shia Muslims to flagellate themselves and make themselves bleed.

The idea that in some wacko way people honor God/Allah by cruelly abusing themselves with whips and chains. In Mexico, there is a series of ancient, crumbling statues along the Calzada de los Misterios (The causeway of Mysteries)  from colonial times that lead from the Nation Cathedral about ten miles to the Shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe. And at any moment, you will see people, usually women,walking on their bloody knees the entire distance, in hopes that Jesus will pay attention to their prayers.

This is not mystical, it is not miraculous, it is a form of mental insanity. Like Mother Teresa denying pain medication to her poor, dying patients.