Author Topic: One down  (Read 542 times)

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sirs

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Re: One down
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2017, 05:36:35 PM »
Flynn may have been a "victim", but unlike Sessions, who had a perfectly legal postition, as a senator, to dialog with any Ambassador, including the Russian Ambassador, Flynn was still a private citizen when he was speaking to the Russian Government.  Doesn't matter he was going to be part of a Trump Administration.  He wasn't being up front, and kind of hung Pense out to dry, when he defended Flynn's original position, that he had absolutely no contact.

In whatever effort he felt obligated to faciltate possible actions to lessen the tension between the U.S. & Russia, he messed up, and appropriately tendered his resignation.

The Sessions' molehill is nothing but a molehill, and showcasing Democrats acting utterly desperate. 

The wiretapping tweet was a ridiculous tactic, and diminishes that great joint congress speech he gave last week.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: One down
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2017, 07:21:56 PM »
The wiretapping tweet was a ridiculous tactic

We can agree to disagree.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Plane

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Re: One down
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2017, 11:23:37 PM »
   Doesn't it matter a lot what might have been said by Flynn and whoever else?

    If there was a discussion of weather and grandchildren then who cares?

      If a quid pro quo was offered and accepted such that malfeasance and improper use of federal power was promised in return for behind the scenes assistance in political skullduggery who could be accepting?

     I think an inconsequential blather is far more likely than a smoking gun. This was recorded and the record could be available to the press if it were really sexy.

Plane

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Re: One down
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2017, 11:30:12 PM »
blah blah blah -



  Well Ok...
I do respect your ability.

Gotta suggestion?


I think that help combing the internet for pertinent and interesting sources is a real service.


Of Flynn himself I do not know enough about him yet, his willingness to retire instead of being an impediment seems a good thing , but if the reason was to escape the situation in which he was much at fault , I would not know the difference at this point.

sirs

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Re: One down
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2017, 03:23:42 AM »
The wiretapping tweet was a ridiculous tactic

We can agree to disagree.

Cu4, with all due respect....it's an allegation....of a former President, with not a shred of any evidence to support it.  We're appropriately giving substantial grief to the Dems for trying to allege some intimate collusion between Trump & the Russians, with the elections, without a shred of proof.  Why would we not hold ourselves to the same standard?? 

Now, I wouldn't put it past the Democrats and Obama to have pulled such a felonious stunt, but tweeting the accusation was childish.  He won the election, its done with it.  Why bring this up?...in a tweet no less??  Send a memo of concern to the FBI, and if they find something, THEN tweet it,... with fanfare even.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

hnumpah

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Re: One down
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2017, 12:37:20 PM »
Because its informative.  That's why bother.

Really? I get several dozen news feeds a day, from AP, CNN, Fox, NY Times, Washington Post, WSJ, AFP, BBC, CBC, online editions of papers from around the world, and other websites. Informative, to me, is hearing - well, actually seeing - what folks here think themselves. I figured why not, give it a shot, see if we might get some discussions going. Maybe, just maybe, even attract some new posters, get some fresh blood into the group. Well, apparently the topic attracted readers, but no one stuck around, perhaps as disappointed as I was.

..... So what else would you like to talk about Flynn?

Sorry, old news.

Flynn may have been a "victim", but unlike Sessions, who had a perfectly legal postition, as a senator, to dialog with any Ambassador, including the Russian Ambassador, Flynn was still a private citizen when he was speaking to the Russian Government.  Doesn't matter he was going to be part of a Trump Administration.  He wasn't being up front, and kind of hung Pense out to dry, when he defended Flynn's original position, that he had absolutely no contact.

In whatever effort he felt obligated to faciltate possible actions to lessen the tension between the U.S. & Russia, he messed up, and appropriately tendered his resignation.

The Sessions' molehill is nothing but a molehill, and showcasing Democrats acting utterly desperate. 

The wiretapping tweet was a ridiculous tactic, and diminishes that great joint congress speech he gave last week.

The problem with Sessions isn't that he had contact with the Russian ambassador, or that it was legal to do so. It is that he lied, or at a minimum tried to cover up the fact that he had such contact, under oath. Bubba had every legal right to get a blowjob in the Oval Office, the crime was lying about it under oath.

Cu4, with all due respect....it's an allegation....of a former President, with not a shred of any evidence to support it.  We're appropriately giving substantial grief to the Dems for trying to allege some intimate collusion between Trump & the Russians, with the elections, without a shred of proof.  Why would we not hold ourselves to the same standard?? 

Now, I wouldn't put it past the Democrats and Obama to have pulled such a felonious stunt, but tweeting the accusation was childish.  He won the election, its done with it.  Why bring this up?...in a tweet no less??  Send a memo of concern to the FBI, and if they find something, THEN tweet it,... with fanfare even.

Obama did not begin most of these programs. Some had their beginnings before Bush - in fact, some have been plodding along for decades. But they took off after 9/11 under Bush, when Americans clamored for security at all costs and were willing to trade their freedoms for it. Remember the Patriot Act everyone wanted to 'protect' them? Those of us who tried to warn against it then were shouted down and ignored.

I worked at the National Security Agency in the late 70's and early 80's. I had a pretty good perspective what their monitoring capabilities were then, and with a tech background it wasn't difficult to see what was coming if it wasn't kept in check. It wasn't. As personal computers, cell phones, 'smart' phones and 'smart' technology has grown, so has the government's ability to use our own tech to gather information - on us. And if they can, so can anyone else with the tech skills, and inevitably, if anyone can, someone will.

Now, here's what may be hard for some to swallow - Obama, nor anyone at DOJ, FBI, CIA, whatever, needed to order any kind of taps or monitoring. If telephones, emails, any sort of electronic transmission at all was used, more than likely the recording was automatic. All that was required was someone to dig up the relevant data (from the vast amount collected each day on everyone) and leak it. Anyone with access might have done it, and that number runs into the thousands of NSA, CIA or other government employees or contractors. Remember Snowden? So you, or Trump, can yell 'Obama' all you want, but you are overlooking the much greater possibility - and danger - it was someone else.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

sirs

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Re: One down
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2017, 02:07:16 PM »
Discussion is far more difficult when 1 side, hightails it with the 1st sign of disagreement.  But at least you're making an effort here, so that's a good start

We all generally subscribe to the same news feeds, H.  What I referred to here as "informative" is precisely what you referenced, different thought processing under the same situation/scenario.  How it might influence my thought processing.  We all love the idea of new blood....doesn't help when you erroneously proclaim to any would be prospects that  that this is some good ol boys club, when we all can disagree

No, Sessions didn't lie....he simply wasn't as clear as he could have been.  As I said, a molehill of a molehill.  A lie to me is an overt attempt to deceive.  So, Sessions either is the dumbest AG since......Lynch, with how easily it was shown that not just he, but nearly every other congress critter has met with the Russian Ambassador, or he simply wasn't clear in that he never met with the Russians to discuss the campaign.  If you want to call it a lie, fine, that's your perrogative.  I'm not on any type of witch hunt to try and shoot down every one of Trump's cabinet picks, with some verbal technicality.

And your points on not requiring some official order on a wire tap, is absolutely valid....I've heard numerous folks connected with the NSA or FBI echoing the same thing.  So, Obama can "truthfully" say he gave no such order....doesn't mean it wasn't done.  But at the same times, doesn't justify some ridiculous accusatory tweet, minus any evidence to the accusation
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: One down
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2017, 08:39:41 PM »
.....................................

Obama did not begin most of these programs. Some had their beginnings before Bush - in fact, some have been plodding along for decades. But they took off after 9/11 under Bush, when Americans clamored for security at all costs and were willing to trade their freedoms for it. Remember the Patriot Act everyone wanted to 'protect' them? Those of us who tried to warn against it then were shouted down and ignored.

I worked at the National Security Agency in the late 70's and early 80's. I had a pretty good perspective what their monitoring capabilities were then, and with a tech background it wasn't difficult to see what was coming if it wasn't kept in check. It wasn't. As personal computers, cell phones, 'smart' phones and 'smart' technology has grown, so has the government's ability to use our own tech to gather information - on us. And if they can, so can anyone else with the tech skills, and inevitably, if anyone can, someone will.

Now, here's what may be hard for some to swallow - Obama, nor anyone at DOJ, FBI, CIA, whatever, needed to order any kind of taps or monitoring. If telephones, emails, any sort of electronic transmission at all was used, more than likely the recording was automatic. All that was required was someone to dig up the relevant data (from the vast amount collected each day on everyone) and leak it. Anyone with access might have done it, and that number runs into the thousands of NSA, CIA or other government employees or contractors. Remember Snowden? So you, or Trump, can yell 'Obama' all you want, but you are overlooking the much greater possibility - and danger - it was someone else.


    That is a point , the information could have been collected in what is now normal surveillance of Ambassadors and Embassy staff.
      So who collects edits and makes use of such information?

        It seems that this was not important to publish earlier than November, when it might have had effect on election.

        Releasing it now is more like distraction.

         So who does this sort of leaking and why?