Europe's New Young Generation of Losers

[The_Professor]

<<Actually, the Disciples practiced a form of communism. Did you know that?>>

I've heard it said.  But they had yet to discover the Dictatorship of the Proletariat.

But more seriously, Professor, you really should read "Christ Recrucified" by Nikos Kazantzakis, one of the greatest Greek writers of all time.  The idea of the novel is that Jesus comes back to a little Greek village under the Ottoman Empire and ultimately the priests and the merchants conspire to crucify the poor guy all over again.   Excellent book, IMHO. 

Thank you, MT. I just ordered it via Amazon per your recommendation. If itsn't as good as advertised, do I get my money back? 

[_JS]

After all, they use the same argument - that people should give up opposing them because their cause is inevitable.

There are capitalists that use the same argument as well. It is not an uncommon practice to any single group.

The idea of the novel is that Jesus comes back to a little Greek village under the Ottoman Empire and ultimately the priests and the merchants conspire to crucify the poor guy all over again.

There was a short story that was very similar about an angel that fell into a small village and it was either in Spain or Greece I think. Of course the angel looked nothing like the beautiful renditions in popular paintings, but was more similar to a grotesque old man with broken wings. A number of the villagers wanted to kill him because they thought he was something evil. Others wanted to help him.

I wish I could remember the name of it. Anyone?

[Amianthus]

There are capitalists that use the same argument as well. It is not an uncommon practice to any single group.

I don't know of any. I know of many that claim that capitalism is a natural system for humans, since we've been using it since before human history.

[_JS]

I don't know of any. I know of many that claim that capitalism is a natural system for humans, since we've been using it since before human history.

To answer the first, you should check into it. There are quite a few utopian capitalists out there. I would argue that Ayn Rand was one and a few of the anarchist academics are as well.

For the second sentence you are suggesting primitive capitalism. Nothing really impressive there. Communists have suggested primitive communism for a 150 years now. Socialists have argued for primitive socialism for even longer. Some of the arguments have merit, some don't.

I don't really think any of them do as they all seem to be placing the cart before the horse. Economics isn't physics in that it exists without manmade input and theory. Physics is universal, economics is not. Primitive communism, socialism, and capitalism are simply attempts by rival economic theories at unupsmanship by using (and often abusing) history to their own selfish ends.

[Xavier_Onassis]

The name of the film is Señor muy Viejo con alas enormes, (A very Old Man with Enormous Wings), based on a story with Coloimbian Nobel prizewinner Gabriel Garcia Márquez, and filmed in Cuba by a Spanish production company. The version I saw was in Spanish. The extras were Cubans, among them a number of Black and Mulattos, so I don't think it pretended to have been made in Greece or Italy, where Blacks are pretty scarce, especially Spanish-speaking ones.


I really liked it. the reviewer at imdb seems to have hated it.


http://imdb.com/title/tt0096077/

[Xavier_Onassis]

The entire text of this short short story is available, in English, at
http://www.geocities.com/cyber_explorer99/garciamarquezoldman.html

[_JS]

Gracias XO.

I'd say it was just very poor memory on my part that put it in Spain or Greece instead of Latin America.

I don't think I ever saw the film, but I remember reading the story.

[Universe Prince]

Well, that settles it, doesn't it?

Some dude you know nothing about has said something you appear to agree with, and that just cinches it for all time.

No. I was not using him as an authoritative opinion. I was pointing out that he is gaining political ground in France and isn't socialist. That's all. You really should stop assuming. You're not very good at it.

Dude, Marx was RIGHT about how capitalism is a race to the bottom. Observe how manufacturing has been fleeing to the bottom, (i.e. underdeveloped nations, among them China) for the past 15 years or so. It is ironic that the place to which manufacturing jobs are fleeing purports to be Communist, but that is so effuing bloody OBVIOUS that anyone can see it.

Jobs going to underdeveloped countries makes capitalism a race to the bottom? Heh. Yeah, all those poor people benefiting from capitalism is just such a tragedy... no, not really, but it's funny to watch you make these arguments. It is ironic that the otherwise communist country of China is getting such an economic boost from the limited capitalism it allows. Apparently communism works so long as it lets in a little capitalism.

[Universe Prince]

I'm sure he also believes the PETA claims that the world would be a better place if humans all died off. After all, they use the same argument - that people should give up opposing them because their cause is inevitable.

I don't know. I don't pay much attention to PETA. I have not heard them claim their cause is inevitable. Wouldn't surprise me much though.

[kimba1]

I like peta
I`m thinking of joining

People
Eating
Tasty
Animals

[Universe Prince]

Apparently communism works so long as it lets in a little capitalism.

And to that end, a newly proposed law in China would protect privately owned property:

"Enacting the property law is necessitated by the need to uphold the basic socialist economic system... and by the need to safeguard the immediate interests of the people," said Wang Zhaoguo of the Communist Party's politburo, who introduced the bill. "People's living standards have improved in general, and they urgently require effective protection of their own lawful property accumulated through hard work," he told 2,835 delegates gathered in the Great Hall of the People.

Whole article at http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article2341350.ece

This sort of thing makes me question the whole "communism is inevitable" bit. Unless by 'inevitable' one means 'gradually takes on the form of capitalism'.

[Plane]

"Economics isn't physics in that it exists without manmade input and theory. Physics is universal, economics is not."


I think this is not true.

Economics is  species of mathmatics , some of its rules are arcane and include many hard to measure variabes , this makes it very much like physics .

Economics is universal to life , in that the availibility of resorces and exploitation of them is an econmic idea from the level of lions on down to the level of bacteria.

[Michael Tee]

<<I like peta
<<I`m thinking of joining>>

I was just about to congratulate you and then I read the rest of your post.

Well, at least it was funny.

I was a PETA member for quite a few years but then had to give it up due to other committments.  Their magazine had some very sad and awful stories in it.  They were backed up with photos, documents, and sometimes even MSM articles.  I don't know how a society that can inflict so much suffering not only on other human beings but even on animals can have any claim at all to the superior status that most of the posters in this group like to think it has.

Jokes aside, though, PETA is on the right track and in the end they will prevail against all the ignoramuses who try to put it down (I'm not including you, that was a really funny joke) just like communism.

If anyone out there wants to make a contribution to a better world and feel that he or she is making a difference, I strongly recommend getting involved in PETA.  Especially if you love animals.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Jobs going to underdeveloped countries makes capitalism a race to the bottom? Heh. Yeah, all those poor people benefiting from capitalism is just such a tragedy... no, not really, but it's funny to watch you make these arguments. It is ironic that the otherwise communist country of China is getting such an economic boost from the limited capitalism it allows. Apparently communism works so long as it lets in a little capitalism.

=============================================================================
You don't really understand what Marx wrote, do you?

It might be true that the teenage Chinese girl who sewed your underwear is better off working 12 hours per six-day week for 15$3 a day in a sweatshop far from her family. Perhaps she will have a better life than she would have had at home in her village slopping the hogs and feeding the chickens. The tragedy is that the Mexican and Salvadorean girls who used to sew your tighty whities for $5 a day are now out of work in some city they were lured to by the promise of a better life.

Neither communism nor capitalism is the solution, face it.

[Amianthus]

If anyone out there wants to make a contribution to a better world and feel that he or she is making a difference, I strongly recommend getting involved in PETA.  Especially if you love animals.

There are a number of people in other animal rights groups that have a different meaning for the PETA acronym:

People for Extortion, Terrorism, and Arson.

Especially since they (PETA) support so many bombers and arsonists.