Author Topic: Pardon?  (Read 5090 times)

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Mucho

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Pardon?
« on: March 10, 2007, 01:36:44 PM »

The_Professor

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Re: Pardon?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2007, 01:51:22 PM »
The MSM is, as is usual, insane. Plame was never a covert agent, there was no crime in "exposing" her as a CIA employee, and there was never need for an investigation in the first place. Wilson is a liar and the truth is not in him, and he gets rich. What is hte lesson to be learned here, if any?


Lanya

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Re: Pardon?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2007, 03:18:49 PM »

The CIA Leak: Plame Was Still Covert
      
Newsweek

Feb. 13, 2006 issue - Newly released court papers could put holes in the defense of Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, in the Valerie Plame leak case. Lawyers for Libby, and White House allies, have repeatedly questioned whether Plame, the wife of White House critic Joe Wilson, really had covert status when she was outed to the media in July 2003. But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas" on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA "was making specific efforts to conceal" her identity, according to newly released portions of a judge's opinion.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11179719/site/newsweek/
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Lanya

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Re: Pardon?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2007, 03:22:05 PM »
[..................]

The CIA declined to discuss Plame's intelligence work, but an agency official disputed suggestions that she was a mere analyst whose public exposure would have little consequence.

"If she was not undercover, we would have no reason to file a criminal referral," the CIA official said, insisting on anonymity because of the sensitivity of the investigation.

[..............]

http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.php?display=rednews/2003/10/01/build/nation/25-leak.inc
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Lanya

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Re: Pardon?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2007, 03:24:39 PM »
http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/13/04720/9340

The Big Lie About Valerie Plame
ljohnson's picture
By Larry Johnson | bio
The misinformation being spread in the media about the Plame affair is alarming and damaging to the longterm security interests of the United States.  Republicans' talking points are trying to savage Joe Wilson and, by implication, his wife, Valerie Plame as liars.  That is the truly big lie.

For starters, Valerie Plame was an undercover operations officer until outed in the press by Robert Novak.  Novak's column was not an isolated attack.  It was in fact part of a coordinated, orchestrated smear that we now know includes at least Karl Rove.

Valerie Plame was a classmate of mine from the day she started with the CIA.  I entered on duty at the CIA in September 1985.  All of my classmates were undercover--in other words, we told our family and friends that we were working for other overt U.S. Government agencies.  We had official cover.  That means we had a black passport--i.e., a diplomatic passport.  If we were caught overseas engaged in espionage activity the black passport was a get out of jail free card.

A few of my classmates, and Valerie was one of these, became a non-official cover officer.  That meant she agreed to operate overseas without the protection of a diplomatic passport.  If caught in that status she would have been executed.
The lies by people like Victoria Toensing, Representative Peter King, and P. J. O'Rourke insist that Valerie was nothing, just a desk jockey.  Yet, until Robert Novak betrayed her she was still undercover and the company that was her front was still a secret to the world.  When Novak outed Valerie he also compromised her company and every individual overseas who had been in contact with that company and with her.

The Republicans now want to hide behind the legalism that "no laws were broken".  I don't know if a man made law was broken but an ethical and moral code was breached.  For the first time a group of partisan political operatives publically identified a CIA NOC.  They have set a precendent that the next group of political hacks may feel free to violate.

They try to hide behind the specious claim that Joe Wilson "lied".  Although Joe did not lie let's follow that reasoning to the logical conclusion.  Let's use the same standard for the Bush Administration.  Here are the facts.  Bush's lies have resulted in the deaths of almost 1800 American soldiers and the mutilation of 12,000.  Joe Wilson has not killed anyone.  He tried to prevent the needless death of Americans and the loss of American prestige in the world.

But don't take my word for it, read the biased Senate intelligence committee report.  Even though it was slanted to try to portray Joe in the worst possible light this fact emerges on page 52 of the report:  According to the US Ambassador to Niger (who was commenting on Joe's visit in February 2002), "Ambassador Wilson reached the same conclusion that the Embassy has reached that it was highly unlikely that anything between Iraq and Niger was going on."  Joe's findings were consistent with those of the Deputy Commander of the European Command, Major General Fulford.

The Republicans insist on the lie that Val got her husband the job.  She did not.  She was not a division director, instead she was the equivalent of an Army major.  Yes it is true she recommended her husband to do the job that needed to be done but the decision to send Joe Wilson on this mission was made by her bosses.

At the end of the day, Joe Wilson was right.  There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.  It was the Bush Administration that pushed that lie and because of that lie Americans are dying.  Shame on those who continue to slander Joe Wilson while giving Bush and his pack of liars a pass.  That's the true outrage.
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Lanya

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Re: Pardon?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2007, 03:29:48 PM »
[..................]
Plame -- who is referred to by her married name, Valerie Wilson, in the memo -- is mentioned in the second paragraph of the three-page document, which was written on June 10, 2003, by an analyst in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR), according to a source who described the memo to The Washington Post.
   
The paragraph identifying her as the wife of former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV was clearly marked to show that it contained classified material at the "secret" level, two sources said. The CIA classifies as "secret" the names of officers whose identities are covert, according to former senior agency officials.

[..................]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/20/AR2005072002517.html
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Lanya

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Re: Pardon?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2007, 03:42:57 PM »
[.............]
Some media figures critical of the CIA leak case have attempted to downplay its significance by claiming that no evidence exists that the public disclosure of Plame's identity compromised national security. In fact, news reports have indicated that the CIA believed the damage caused by the leak "was serious enough to warrant an investigation" and that the subsequent disclosure of Plame's CIA front company likely put other agents' work at risk. Further, Fitzgerald stated that Plame's identity had been protected by the CIA "not just for the officer, but for the nation's security." And in their recently published book, Hubris, Corn and Newsweek investigative correspondent Michael Isikoff reported that, at the time of the leak, Plame was the chief of operations for the CIA's Joint Task Force on Iraq, which "mount[ed] espionage operations to gather information on the WMD programs Iraq might have."
[.........]

http://mediamatters.org/items/200703060008
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sirs

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Re: Pardon?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2007, 03:54:39 PM »
Funny how in all those Lanya links, notice how not 1, references Fitzgerald himself, (you know, the fella in charge of investigating and determining if Plame was covert) making such definative conclusion as Lanya keeps trying to imply.   :D
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Lanya

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Re: Pardon?
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2007, 05:10:04 PM »
Fitzgerald stated that Plame's identity had been protected by the CIA "not just for the officer, but for the nation's security."
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sirs

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Re: Pardon?
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2007, 05:16:36 PM »
Fitzgerald stated that Plame's identity had been protected by the CIA "not just for the officer, but for the nation's security."

One more time, at no time has Fitzgerald concluded, in any way shape or form that Plame was covert when she was supposedly "outed".  And you don't think the media have been perseverating on that question Lanya?  The case is closed, and STILL Fitzgerald has made no reference that Plame was some covert agent.  I realize this fact is a hard 1 to swallow, but none the less, it remains a fact, even if in a Judge's opinion, he thought that's what Fitzgerald might have meant. 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Lanya

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Re: Pardon?
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2007, 06:22:37 PM »
Sorry, it's been amply proven that she was covert.  She was under non-official cover.   
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sirs

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Re: Pardon?
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2007, 06:31:46 PM »
Sorry, it's been amply proven that she was covert.  She was under non-official cover.    

Too bad you don't actually have the facts and investigation to back up the claim.  Proven to already predisposed minds she was covert perhaps.  But as I'm confident you've been googling your little fingers off trying desperately to find somewhere, ANYWHERE Fitzgerald may have made such an official designation, the fact all you have to come back with is your repetative opinion she was covert, would tend to validate my claim, all the more. 

Which at least is more than your complete inability to defend your position on the Fairnes Doctrine.  So there is that, at least
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Mucho

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Re: Pardon?
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2007, 06:41:40 PM »
The MSM is, as is usual, insane. Plame was never a covert agent, there was no crime in "exposing" her as a CIA employee, and there was never need for an investigation in the first place. Wilson is a liar and the truth is not in him, and he gets rich. What is hte lesson to be learned here, if any?



Even if one assumes that you are right  ( which you & your ilk rarely are) and Plame was not covert , getting a blow job is not a crime either but you lunatics via the effeminate Ken Starr hounded Bill through Hell. That is the point of the toon, dummy.

The_Professor

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Re: Pardon?
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2007, 07:27:08 PM »
It wasn't the blow job nearly as much as committing perjury.

sirs

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Re: Pardon?
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2007, 07:33:18 PM »
It wasn't the blow job nearly as much as committing perjury.

That point always seems to get ignored, doesn't it.  IIRC, JFK was known to have several extracurricular activities occuring outside of his marital vows.  At no time did I ever recall any chrous of impeachment cries.  What immoral and/or disgusting acts folks like JFK, Newt, or Clinton want to do is between themselves and God to deal with (God being Hillary in the case of Bill).  When it transitions over to committing perjury, obstructing justice, and violating the rule of law, THAT's when we have a Presidential problem, and not just an immoral one 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle