Adopting our values and Iraq

[The_Professor]

If we cannot induce those growing up here to adopt our values, why do we believe we can cause some kind of transformation in Iraq where Sunni hates Shiite, both hate Kurds, and all three despise Turkomen; where the Turks want to suppress an independent Kurdish state which is the only orderly part of Iraq; etc? Clearly nations can be built; equally clearly the Western intelligentsia despises "nationalism". If Iraq is not to inspire "national" patriotism, to just what are Babylonians, Kurds, Arabs, Assyrians, Persians, Turkomen, etc. to be loyal? To Islam? Which one? Shia, Sunni, Wahabi, Sufi? What, other than dislike of Israel and US intervention, unites all these people? I ask seriously.

[Michael Tee]

Good post, Professor, and good questions.  As you can see, there are no answers.

[The_Professor]

Well, if there are indeed answers, I simply do not see them. The poliitcs in effect there due to the differing cultures, etc. make my head spin.

[Plane]

If we cannot induce those growing up here to adopt our values, why do we believe we can cause some kind of transformation in Iraq where Sunni hates Shiite, both hate Kurds, and all three despise Turkomen; where the Turks want to suppress an independent Kurdish state which is the only orderly part of Iraq; etc? Clearly nations can be built; equally clearly the Western intelligentsia despises "nationalism". If Iraq is not to inspire "national" patriotism, to just what are Babylonians, Kurds, Arabs, Assyrians, Persians, Turkomen, etc. to be loyal? To Islam? Which one? Shia, Sunni, Wahabi, Sufi? What, other than dislike of Israel and US intervention, unites all these people? I ask seriously.

Americans have more scism than Iraq  , how did we come to be fond of the USA?

[Universe Prince]

If we cannot induce those growing up here to adopt our values,

What does that even mean? Which values? Which "those growing up here"?

Clearly nations can be built; equally clearly the Western intelligentsia despises "nationalism". If Iraq is not to inspire "national" patriotism, to just what are Babylonians, Kurds, Arabs, Assyrians, Persians, Turkomen, etc. to be loyal? To Islam? Which one? Shia, Sunni, Wahabi, Sufi? What, other than dislike of Israel and US intervention, unites all these people? I ask seriously.

Maybe Iraq should not inspire nationalism. Maybe we should let the country split. Why do we have to have Iraq as Iraq? And why should we even care about it one way or the other?

[The_Professor]

"Americans have more scism than Iraq  , how did we come to be fond of the USA?"

Vision toward building a common destiny. You must, over time, put aside childish views and agree to move forward. This can apply anywhere, including Iraq.

[The_Professor]

"Maybe Iraq should not inspire nationalism. Maybe we should let the country split. Why do we have to have Iraq as Iraq? And why should we even care about it one way or the other?"

At this point, UP, I concur. Let's get OUT and let them stew in their own juices. As you and I have discussed and agreed upon (incredibile, huh? We can actually agree? And they say miracles do not happen! There IS a God!), let's cease beign so interventionist and get out of many places, Iraq being one of these places.