Author Topic: Who would our Founders endorse for president today?  (Read 10405 times)

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Plane

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Re: Who would our Founders endorse for president today?
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2007, 04:30:10 PM »
Because although we are a nation comprised of a larger percentage of whites than any other race, we don't call ourselves a White Nation.  Same with Protestant Nation. 


Not really , the White Majority is not as large or as important as the Christian majority.


How indeed would you describe the nation at all?


Would you call us an athiest nation ?

_JS

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Re: Who would our Founders endorse for president today?
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2007, 05:00:38 PM »
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Not really , the White Majority is not as large or as important as the Christian majority.

Are you seriously suggesting that our European heritage has not had a significant impact on our history?

Also, the majority is roughly equal Plane. The United States is 76% Christian and 75% White. I'd say that is close enough to consider them very similar for statistical purposes.

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How indeed would you describe the nation at all?

A fickle mob ;)

Seriously, the concept of a nation is ambiguous enough without getting into a pedantic or semantic argument. Think about Honolulu, Hawaii then Nome, Alaska, then Hollywood, California, then Nashville, Tennessee. Those are all within the nation of the United States of America, but can you seriously use adjectives to describe the people there in very specific terms?

Quote
Would you call us an athiest nation ?

Polling data would suggest not. But again, Protestantism itself is extremely disparate in thought. So what is the point of ascribing one set of descriptions to the entire nation?
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Amianthus

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Re: Who would our Founders endorse for president today?
« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2007, 05:16:26 PM »
The United States is 76% Christian

Not counting the Mormons as Christian?

The United States is ... 75% White.

World Fact Book says 82% white.
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_JS

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Re: Who would our Founders endorse for president today?
« Reply #48 on: April 13, 2007, 05:22:36 PM »
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Not counting the Mormons as Christian?

Actually I'm not sure. It was from the 2001 Statistical Abstract of the United States, but apparently from a private survey, so the 76% are self-identified. There are apparently other surveys that have it at around 80% and 78%.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
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   Fill my ears with silver
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Amianthus

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Re: Who would our Founders endorse for president today?
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2007, 05:23:54 PM »
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Not counting the Mormons as Christian?

Actually I'm not sure. It was from the 2001 Statistical Abstract of the United States, but apparently from a private survey, so the 76% are self-identified. There are apparently other surveys that have it at around 80% and 78%.

World Fact Book claims 52% Protestant, 24% RC, 2% Mormon. That's 78%. Same source claims 82% white. Last update was 2007.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Who would our Founders endorse for president today?
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2007, 05:29:32 PM »
The US may have a majority Christian population, but it was decided at the beginning that there would be no official national religion. The mother country, England, had an established religion (the Church of England), as did the Netherlands (Dutch Reformed), Scotland (Presbyterian) and Ireland (which was mostly Roman Catholic, but there were eventually two establish religions, Presbyterian in Ulster, and Church of England in the South) and nearly every other state in Europe.

The context of Europe and England was a series of bloody religious wars. In Europe these were between the Catholics and the Protestants, but England first had the Catholics duke it out with the Church of England (Queens Mary and Elizabeth) and later between the Caviliers (Anglicans) and then Roundheads (Cromwell's Separatists). The Founding Fathers decided that it was best to avoid this whole bloody shebang by agreeing to disagree as individuals and to keep the state out of religion. I think the Church of England was officially the established church of Maryland for a time, but it had no major effect on the state or the nation as a whole.

Who would the Founders endorse?

I think they would be baffled by the changes. I see Franklin and Jefferson avoiding the entire matter for several years until each got his website up. Washington would hardly be impressed by any need to keep troops in Iraq. He was very much in favor of 'avoiding foreign entanglements', and I don't see him having a high opinion of NAFTA or CAFTA.

I see them all as likely to have a deep interest in how Canada turned out.

Remember, about half of our founding fathers found slavery acceptable, and all found it tolerable.
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Amianthus

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Re: Who would our Founders endorse for president today?
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2007, 05:35:22 PM »
I think the Church of England was officially the established church of Maryland for a time, but it had no major effect on the state or the nation as a whole.

Not likely, since that colony was founded by Cæcilius Calvert as a refuge for Roman Catholics.

And, of course, I go look it up and you're right. However, most of the colonies had the Anglican Church as the "official" religion written into their charters, because they were land grants from the King of England. NC, SC, and a bunch of others had Anglican as their "official" religion on that basis.

However, what I said still stands - the King wanted to get rid of Cæcilius Calvert, and since lords can't vote in Parliament if they were living in the colonies, he gave Lord Baltimore (Cæcilius Calvert) the land grant for Maryland. Since he and his family were Roman Catholic, they solicited colonists from Germany and Ireland, where the members of the Roman Catholic faith were being persecuted at the time.

His son, Charles Calvert (who became Lord Baltimore on the death of his father) governed the colony, and attempted to repress the Protestants. Interestingly enough, Cæcilius Calvert never got to see Maryland, having died before he actually came over.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 05:45:26 PM by Amianthus »
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Plane

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Re: Who would our Founders endorse for president today?
« Reply #52 on: April 15, 2007, 01:44:06 AM »
Quote
How indeed would you describe the nation at all?

A fickle mob ;)

Seriously, the concept of a nation is ambiguous enough without getting into a pedantic or semantic argument. Think about Honolulu, Hawaii then Nome, Alaska, then Hollywood, California, then Nashville, Tennessee. Those are all within the nation of the United States of America, but can you seriously use adjectives to describe the people there in very specific terms?

Quote
Would you call us an athiest nation ?

Polling data would suggest not. But again, Protestantism itself is extremely disparate in thought. So what is the point of ascribing one set of descriptions to the entire nation?



I agree that the term "people " and "Nation"  are not as specific as "government ".
Are you describeing the People and Nation ?