My, my Repubs are bigger pervs than Dems and bigger hypocrits too- The AIDs Czar

[terra]

So you admit there are times when there are hate crimes and those who commit such crimes should be held to a harcher penalty? You call it war...but that was not war when those planes hit the towers, that was 19 men killing themselves hopeing to take as many people as possible with them. 

I wonder if Mathew Shephard would say he was not in a war? So the killers of Mathew were home grown terrorists. Should McVey who killed all those people have gotten less time? It was terrorism...or is your idea of terrorism just those who have brown skin killing whites?

[domer]

It is rational, and thus within the competence of the legislature to consider 1) that hate exists in our nation, 2) that certain groups throughout our history -- continuning into the present -- have been targeted for who they are and more than others, 3) that this is an intolerable situation in a civilized country, 4) that an extra dash of deterrence is appropriate for the persons just described, and 5) that the proven device ("proven" in the sense of being long-established and often-used) of sentence-enhancers (used perhaps most notoriously with repeat offenders) is a suitable mechanism to employ when a) a specified type of crime is committed and b) some reliable, objective criterion or criteria can be established to show that such crime was motivated by (carried the intent of -- a standard criminal-law inquiry) specifically inflicting harm because of actual or putative affiliation with a listed group, which, it must be emphasized, was not selected randomly but as a product of historical and current discrimination. The sentence enhancer punishes this latter aspect of the criminal encounter. One "simply" being assaulted, for example, would not get this extra protection because this extra harm, as defined by the legislature, was not inflicted.

[BT]

So you admit there are times when there are hate crimes and those who commit such crimes should be held to a harcher penalty? You call it war...but that was not war when those planes hit the towers, that was 19 men killing themselves hopeing to take as many people as possible with them. 

Nonsense.

They were members of and under direction of Al Queda which had declared war on the infidel US.

[sirs]

So you admit there are times when there are hate crimes and those who commit such crimes should be held to a harcher penalty?

No.  I told you there's a distinct difference between criminal activity and War.  Please try to keep up

[terra]

So you admit there are times when there are hate crimes and those who commit such crimes should be held to a harcher penalty?

No.  I told you there's a distinct difference between criminal activity and War.  Please try to keep up

First off..I am keeping up, better then you, I think.

Those 19 men did not declare war...they were terrorists. Did McVey declare war?

Face it, if those men in that plane were 19 jerks from New Jerey they would have been called insane and their compatriots would have been rounded up by cops with intelligence and tried...a criminal trial. The cops would not have gone to Ohio and beat up an old lady that had nothing to do with it.

New American Century...1998...Please Mr. Prez. Attack Saddam for us!
signed...Elliott Abrams    Richard L. Armitage    William J. Bennett

Jeffrey Bergner    John Bolton    Paula Dobriansky

Francis Fukuyama    Robert Kagan    Zalmay Khalilzad

William Kristol    Richard Perle    Peter W. Rodman

Donald Rumsfeld    William Schneider, Jr.    Vin Weber

Paul Wolfowitz    R. James Woolsey    Robert B. Zoellick

2001, Please Mr Prez, attack Saddam for us!
Why sure...that will be fun, I can dress up and be Top Gun..I am tired of cuttin brush. I can carry a gun, I am getting tired of that chain saw.

I can play with soldiers and win elections...war presidents always win.

Now lets fill all the jobs with political hacks that owe me...umm Turdblossom?  Think Dick can get Halliburton lined up and the oil people...? We need a place to put all the oil...they do have oil in Iraqi right?

[sirs]

I told you there's a distinct difference between criminal activity and War.  Please try to keep up

First off..I am keeping up, better then you, I think.  Those 19 men did not declare war...they were terrorists.

........and?  You are leaving off the most important component to that statement.  They were terrorists acting on behalf of AlQeada, who HAD declared war on the infidel U.S.A.  Individual soldiers don't declare war.  What planet are you on, Terra?

Did McVey declare war?

Who was he a member of?.........................................................................................Precisely

Face it, if those men in that plane were 19 jerks from New Jerey they would have been called insane and their compatriots would have been rounded up by cops with intelligence and tried...a criminal trial.

Absolutely right IF they were just murderous thugs from Jersey.  Your problem is they WEREN'T.  They were part of a global organization, who has been waging war on this country since their 1st WTC attack.  Reminds me of a great line in that 911 movie that Clinton Kool-aide drinkers were going all ape snot over, when Harvey Keitel's character was recognizing the fact they were at war, while the higher-ups in government kept trying to look at this as some criminal enterprise. 

So, once again, please try to keep up.

[Plane]

So you admit there are times when there are hate crimes and those who commit such crimes should be held to a harcher penalty? You call it war...but that was not war when those planes hit the towers, that was 19 men killing themselves hopeing to take as many people as possible with them. 

I wonder if Mathew Shephard would say he was not in a war? So the killers of Mathew were home grown terrorists. Should McVey who killed all those people have gotten less time? It was terrorism...or is your idea of terrorism just those who have brown skin killing whites?

"that was 19 men "

I think you are very specificly wrong about this , these 19 were graduates of a traiing program geared to churn out thousands , attacks by this orgainsation  had already killed Americans in Tanzinea , Kenya, Saudi Arabia , Oman and in a previous attack on the twin towers.

If we had not acceped this attack as an act of war it is undoubtable that they would have tryed to do something bigger and worse.

".... is your idea of terrorism just those who have brown skin killing whites?"

Terra, I am disspointed in you for saying this. In the atacks on America by Al Queda , the white victims count for much and so do the brown victims, being brown does not make dieing easyer or killing more excused.

[sirs]

".... is your idea of terrorism just those who have brown skin killing whites?"

Terra, I am disspointed in you for saying this. In the atacks on America by Al Queda , the white victims count for much and so do the brown victims, being brown does not make dieing easyer or killing more excused.

Thank you for that breath of fresh clarity, Plane