Your Freedom Up For Sale

[Brassmask]

Full post at...http://www.brassmask.com/comment.php?comment.news.211



From The Hunt For Red October

Capt. Vasili Borodin: I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pickup truck... maybe even a "recreational vehicle." And drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?
Captain Ramius: I suppose.
Capt. Vasili Borodin: No papers?
Captain Ramius: No papers, state to state.
Capt. Vasili Borodin: Well then, in winter I will live in... Arizona. Actually, I think I will need two wives.
Captain Ramius: Oh, at least.



In America, one of the greatest freedoms we, as citizens, enjoy is the ability to travel anywhere in this whole country without restriction. That freedom is now being bought up by corporations to sell to those who can afford it.

This is happening right now. This is not some "in years to come" corporatist's wetdream. It's being done now.

Corporations are buying up United States infrastructure.

By all accounts, tolls will be applied or raised immediately. The reasoning behind towns, states, whatever selling is that the sales of such items will erase a large part of the budget freeing up money for social programs while also infusing the budget with a large does of quick cash. This is possibly the grossest case of short-sightedness in the history of the US since Bush and his cult illegally invaded Iraq.

[The_Professor]

I had not known this was occuiring, Brass. Do you have examples? How might this affect the Eisenhower Interstate System, for example?

[Brassmask]

I had not known this was occuiring, Brass. Do you have examples? How might this affect the Eisenhower Interstate System, for example?

From the linked article:

(snip)  The aggressive toll hikes embedded in deals all but guarantee pain for lower-income citizens—and enormous profits for the buyers. For example, the investors in the $3.8 billion deal for the Indiana Toll Road, struck in 2006, could break even in year 15 of the 75-year lease, on the way to reaping as much as $21 billion in profits, estimates Merrill Lynch & Co. (MER ) What's more, some public interest groups complain that the revenue from the higher tolls inflicted on all citizens will benefit only a handful of private investors, not the commonweal (see BusinessWeek.com, 4/27/07, "A Golden Gate for Investors").

[Amianthus]

(snip)  The aggressive toll hikes embedded in deals all but guarantee pain for lower-income citizens—and enormous profits for the buyers. For example, the investors in the $3.8 billion deal for the Indiana Toll Road, struck in 2006, could break even in year 15 of the 75-year lease, on the way to reaping as much as $21 billion in profits, estimates Merrill Lynch & Co. (MER ) What's more, some public interest groups complain that the revenue from the higher tolls inflicted on all citizens will benefit only a handful of private investors, not the commonweal (see BusinessWeek.com, 4/27/07, "A Golden Gate for Investors").

Low income poeple should then use I94 or I70. I avoid toll roads all the time.

[BT]

Not sure why you are demonizing corporations for the actions of government officials and toll authority heads.

They are the ones who after manage the toll roads and bridges now, they are the ones who set the current rates and either have them set as pay as you go or tax payer assisted. And they are the ones who are throwing in the towel and liquidizing the asset.

[Plane]

Sometimes the choice is a toll road or no road , then a toll road is better for the poor than no road at all.

"Freeways " are supported by taxes that the poor must pay , the toll may be hidden but it is not absent.

[Lanya]

Brass....
I used to question people who advocated no taxes.  Who's going to pay for the infrastructure w/o taxes, I asked?
Now we see.
We are doing away with anything that contributes to the common good. 
Buy guns and ammo, is all I can say.

[Brassmask]

Not sure why you are demonizing corporations for the actions of government officials and toll authority heads.

They are the ones who after manage the toll roads and bridges now, they are the ones who set the current rates and either have them set as pay as you go or tax payer assisted. And they are the ones who are throwing in the towel and liquidizing the asset.

Don't know why you're throwing up this pointless straw man.

And I really don't know why you're defending corporations who will take from the poor a basic freedom in America.

[Brassmask]

(snip)  The aggressive toll hikes embedded in deals all but guarantee pain for lower-income citizens—and enormous profits for the buyers. For example, the investors in the $3.8 billion deal for the Indiana Toll Road, struck in 2006, could break even in year 15 of the 75-year lease, on the way to reaping as much as $21 billion in profits, estimates Merrill Lynch & Co. (MER ) What's more, some public interest groups complain that the revenue from the higher tolls inflicted on all citizens will benefit only a handful of private investors, not the commonweal (see BusinessWeek.com, 4/27/07, "A Golden Gate for Investors").

Low income poeple should then use I94 or I70. I avoid toll roads all the time.

What if that takes them miles and miles out of their way?  Then it becomes a "which is cheaper?  The toll or the gas one will have to use another non-corporately-owned road" kind of discussion in one's mind.  I guess this is another example of your world famous OPTIONS/CHOICES mindset.

[Brassmask]

Sometimes the choice is a toll road or no road , then a toll road is better for the poor than no road at all.

"Freeways " are supported by taxes that the poor must pay , the toll may be hidden but it is not absent.

Yes, their taxes paid for the road.  We own the roads.  One guy is selling the road (bridge, tunnel, airport) simply because he can.  It takes the "asset" out of the public's hands and into a private owners' hands.  That's not good.

[Brassmask]

Brass....
I used to question people who advocated no taxes.  Who's going to pay for the infrastructure w/o taxes, I asked?
Now we see.
We are doing away with anything that contributes to the common good. 
Buy guns and ammo, is all I can say.

Taxes should be used to resolve issues for as many Americans as possible.
Taxes are a good thing.

[BT]

Taxes are a good thing.

Taxes are universal user fees.

Tolls are targetted user fees.

Why should the poor subsidize SUV drivers from the burbs?

[Amianthus]

What if that takes them miles and miles out of their way?  Then it becomes a "which is cheaper?  The toll or the gas one will have to use another non-corporately-owned road" kind of discussion in one's mind.  I guess this is another example of your world famous OPTIONS/CHOICES mindset.

Then pay the toll.

Though, in every case I've seen, there is always another route practically alongside the toll road that is free, but more heavily congested (so your choice really is "faster, with little traffic" versus "slower, with lots of traffic"). In the case of the Indiana Toll Road, that would be I94. I always use I70, however, because it also misses Chicago at the west end of the state - unless I'm going to Chicago, I don't want to get caught up in that traffic.

Yes, it is exactly a choice each person will have to make.

If you want make your argument, perhaps you can show me a trip in the US that can only be made via toll roads?

[BT]

Don't know why you're throwing up this pointless straw man.

And I really don't know why you're defending corporations who will take from the poor a basic freedom in America.

Don't see it as a strawman.

The government currently controls the toll roads.

The government decides whether to sell the asset.

All corporations are doing is making the offer to buy.

And reading the liked article tells me that that pension and retirement funds could be the largest beneficiary of this business transaction.

Which means many of those on fixed incomes will have a more secure retirement, which helps the poor. And that is what you want isn't it?

[Plane]

Sometimes the choice is a toll road or no road , then a toll road is better for the poor than no road at all.

"Freeways " are supported by taxes that the poor must pay , the toll may be hidden but it is not absent.

Yes, their taxes paid for the road.  We own the roads.  One guy is selling the road (bridge, tunnel, airport) simply because he can.  It takes the "asset" out of the public's hands and into a private owners' hands.  That's not good.

Why is that not good?

If I bought a lot of land , paved it and set up a turnpike , I have taken nothing at all from the public but I have produced something that the public can use for a reasonable rental fee.

If I were to operate a ferry or build a bridge the public is never robbed of a cent , the tolls and fees I would charge would pay for the construction and maintence and also feed me and my next project. This subject is one in which the government and private concerns are allowed to compete directly , is there any evidence that priviately owned roads are maintained less or serve the public more poorly?

Often the choice is not whether the road will or won't be priviately owned but whether or not that road will be built this year or twenty later , do you want to state that haveing no road at all is superior to a toll road?

Taxes are a good thing.

This is not true , I can imagine Robin Hood shooting you full of arrows for takeing this side.