Your Freedom Up For Sale

[Brassmask]

What if that takes them miles and miles out of their way?  Then it becomes a "which is cheaper?  The toll or the gas one will have to use another non-corporately-owned road" kind of discussion in one's mind.  I guess this is another example of your world famous OPTIONS/CHOICES mindset.

Then pay the toll.

Though, in every case I've seen, there is always another route practically alongside the toll road that is free, but more heavily congested (so your choice really is "faster, with little traffic" versus "slower, with lots of traffic"). In the case of the Indiana Toll Road, that would be I94. I always use I70, however, because it also misses Chicago at the west end of the state - unless I'm going to Chicago, I don't want to get caught up in that traffic.

Yes, it is exactly a choice each person will have to make.

If you want make your argument, perhaps you can show me a trip in the US that can only be made via toll roads?

Your discussion is completely moot.  The point is not how people can use non-toll roads now or how inexpensive toll roads are now, I don't disagree on that point.  My point was that when corporations start buying up roads and whatnot, they will raise prices to extravangant levels and cross-country travel will become a luxury if you bow to taking their exhorbitant highways or a vacation of tedium if you can't take I-40 from Memphis to Los Angeles all the way. 

Either way, the average joe loses.

Of course, you can make the case that taking the backroads results in a more fulfilling experience since you actually see America as you go, but what if the point of your trip is that you want to get to certain points QUICKLY?  The point is that your choices, nay, your freedom is now limited. 

When we, the citizens own the road then we can have direct control over the prices.  We can call our congressman or whoever and complain and threaten to vote her ass out.  But with a corporation, their help line is going to say, "we're sorry if you don't like the price, use the backroads."  There is no recourse.

[Brassmask]

Don't know why you're throwing up this pointless straw man.

And I really don't know why you're defending corporations who will take from the poor a basic freedom in America.

Don't see it as a strawman.

The government currently controls the toll roads.

The government decides whether to sell the asset.

All corporations are doing is making the offer to buy.

And reading the liked article tells me that that pension and retirement funds could be the largest beneficiary of this business transaction.

Which means many of those on fixed incomes will have a more secure retirement, which helps the poor. And that is what you want isn't it?

Look, Eisenhower had this in mind.

Interstate Highway System

    Main article: Interstate Highway System

One of Eisenhower's most enduring achievements as President was championing and signing the bill that authorized the Interstate Highway System in 1956. He justified the project through the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 as essential to American security during the Cold War. It was believed that large cities would be targets in a possible future war, and the highways were designed to evacuate them and allow the military to move in.

Eisenhower's goal to create improved highways was influenced by his involvement in the U.S. Army's 1919 Transcontinental Motor Convoy. He was assigned as an observer for the mission, which involved sending a convoy of U.S. Army vehicles coast to coast.[16] His subsequent experience with German autobahns during World War II convinced him of the benefits of an Interstate Highway System.[17]

Now, let's say that Faceless Corporation owned most of the interstate roads leaving New Orleans.  Are they going to just not accept tolls when people are fleeing?  Maybe.  Did Exxon give out free gas in New Orleans?  I don't think so.

[Brassmask]

Taxes are a good thing.

Taxes are universal user fees.

Tolls are targetted user fees.

Why should the poor subsidize SUV drivers from the burbs?

Roads are universal usage assets.  You don't have to drive a hummer or an escalade or a beemer to use the interstate that was built with taxes.  When that same road is bought by a corporation, eventually, you will have to be the kind of person who owns an upscale vehicle in order to afford to use the interstate.

Your taxes will have built it but you can't use it anymore because there's now an exorbitant fee on top of the taxes you still pay that used to be used to upkeep the interstate.

And to be quite honest, any corporation that can afford to dole out billions to buy a road or bridge isn't worth trusting as far as you can throw it.

[Amianthus]

My point was that when corporations start buying up roads and whatnot, they will raise prices to extravangant levels and cross-country travel will become a luxury if you bow to taking their exhorbitant highways or a vacation of tedium if you can't take I-40 from Memphis to Los Angeles all the way. 

Then the current government entities should not be selling the roads. Vote their asses out.

Besides, I see no indication that most highways are being sold. Toll roads were typically setup to build highways where there was a very specific group that needed the highway and federal funds would not be provided. Your example of I-80 in Indiana fits that picture - it was built mainly to satisfy people commuting into Chicago from bedroom communities. I-94 and I-70 was built by the feds, and they satisfy most needs for travelling through Indiana west to east or east to west. The toll road was built as a convenience, and convenience always costs extra.

Of course, you can make the case that taking the backroads results in a more fulfilling experience since you actually see America as you go, but what if the point of your trip is that you want to get to certain points QUICKLY?  The point is that your choices, nay, your freedom is now limited. 

I don't see anywhere in the Constitution where your right to travel across the country on a high speed, limited access road is guaranteed.

When we, the citizens own the road then we can have direct control over the prices.  We can call our congressman or whoever and complain and threaten to vote her ass out.  But with a corporation, their help line is going to say, "we're sorry if you don't like the price, use the backroads."  There is no recourse.

So, how is that complaining to the government working on the current issue of selling toll roads?

Besides, taking money away from a corporation now is much more likely to get action than the threat of possibly voting against them some years down the road. After all, if no one rides on their toll road, they'll go out of business. Happened in Virginia already.

[Amianthus]

Your taxes will have built it but you can't use it anymore because there's now an exorbitant fee on top of the taxes you still pay that used to be used to upkeep the interstate.

Toll roads are typically not built with tax money. They are typically funded with bonds, which is private money.

[BT]

Details always seem to be the buzz kill for a good rant.

Pity

[Religious Dick]

Taxes should be used to resolve issues for as many Americans as possible.
Taxes are a good thing.

*sigh*

There he goes again...

Ok, folks, the line for pitchforks is on left, burning torches on the right. No shoving, there's plenty for everyone....

[yellow_crane]

Your taxes will have built it but you can't use it anymore because there's now an exorbitant fee on top of the taxes you still pay that used to be used to upkeep the interstate.

Toll roads are typically not built with tax money. They are typically funded with bonds, which is private money.

They paved the road behind me and hit up everybody (that is, every 2.5 area lot) for $14,000 each.

They had to pay the county, which was ready to come out full force and deal with anybody who did not want to pay.

One of the reasons I bought mine was that it had a newly paved road in front of it.  Down the street and around the corner, a guy is building a house.  The road is full of potholes, and will need to be paved soon.  I intend to ask the guy if the realtors--those biggest whores in America--advised him about the roads.  Mine did not.  Asking around is how I found out.

[kimba1]

actually a econo car would do better than a SUV on the interstate since the mileage would pretty much offset the cost of the toll
just because someone owns a SUV doesn`t not mean they have the money for the fuel.
actually it`s more likely people who owns expensive anything has serious debts.
I know alot of porsche owners most ask me for money.

having a expensive gas guzzler only mean you like to spend money,which has does not mean you have any.
todays concept of how money is used to blurred
everybody can now spend non-existentant money now

[Amianthus]

They paved the road behind me and hit up everybody (that is, every 2.5 area lot) for $14,000 each.

Did you vote against it?

Did you bother to show up for the hearing?

[Plane]

 
 We are the first nation in the history of the world to go to the poorhouse in an automobile.
Will Rogers
 



It is very American to assume that the poor will have cars..







http://www.famous-quotes.com/topic.php?tid=91

[Xavier_Onassis]

Here in Florida we have public highways and a quasi-public abortion called MDX, which builds the thruways to the ever-growing suburbs out in what used to be the Everglades. Their goal is to have every car fitted with a transponder, which automatically picks the driver's pocket via a prepaid account whenever he drives under one of their tollbooths. It is also used for the rather poorly maintained Florida's Turnpike, that the legislature officially named the Ronald Reagan Turnpike, not that the bastardly old coot ever paid a dime to travel on it.

MDX charges to go west to east, but not east to west, so I avoid using it when I would have to pay.

Their avowed plan is to have everyone buy a transponder, because they know that most people will have already kissed the money they paid these thieves goodbye, and pay the toll rather than take slower roads.

Those that do not have transponders get to pay extra ($1.25 instead of $1.00, $1.50 instead of $1.25) and risk getting tailended by morons at the tollbooths.

[Plane]

There really isn't a freedom to tresspass.

It may look like a road , but what it really is, is land.

If I wanted to build a road why shouldn't I be free to do so?

What If I want to build an airport?

Or a Hotel?

In each of these cases I am povideing a service that requires land  , and charging rent.

[Brassmask]

There really isn't a freedom to tresspass.

It may look like a road , but what it really is, is land.

If I wanted to build a road why shouldn't I be free to do so?

What If I want to build an airport?

Or a Hotel?

In each of these cases I am povideing a service that requires land  , and charging rent.

Because the greater good is more important than your fucking property rights.  More people would die with everyone getting to build their own airports.

[Plane]

There really isn't a freedom to tresspass.

It may look like a road , but what it really is, is land.

If I wanted to build a road why shouldn't I be free to do so?

What If I want to build an airport?

Or a Hotel?

In each of these cases I am povideing a service that requires land  , and charging rent.

Because the greater good is more important than your fucking property rights.  More people would die with everyone getting to build their own airports.

My property rights ,are as much as yours, a part of a very good thing ,how is the greater good served by institutional theft?

When we all have no property rights at all the greater good will have suffered a lot.

We do have this freedom,we can build privately owned airports, how will more people die ?

I don't really understand why you think that the government does a better job of road building or Airport management or hotel management either.



I perceive that a world built to your standards would be considerably less free , perhaps the roads would be free but they would never be built , the cars also might be free , but thay also would never be built , If I wanted to build a road , an airport or a hotel why should it be forbidden?