Author Topic: U.S. Caves on Talking to Iran - - after 30 Years  (Read 909 times)

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Michael Tee

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U.S. Caves on Talking to Iran - - after 30 Years
« on: May 14, 2007, 02:24:34 PM »
<<US denies about-face on Iran 24 minutes ago
 
<<The United States insisted Monday that planned talks with Iran over Iraqi security did not presage a retreat from a three-decade-old US policy to isolate the Islamic republic.

<<The contacts will be "about Iraq and only Iraq," White House spokesman Tony Snow told reporters.

<<"So it hardly blows anything out of the water," he said.>>

only almost 30 years' policy of not talking to them about anything.  officially at least.

<<"What it does, once again, is reiterate the fact that if ... the Iranians do, in fact, want to be playing a constructive role in Iraq, that we're certainly amenable to having conversations about it."

<<The two arch-foes announced Sunday that they would meet to thrash out security in Iran's war-torn neighbor Iraq, where Washington accuses Tehran of fomenting bloody unrest by Shiite militias and attacks on US troops.>>

The U.S. is slipping.  It can't dictate terms anymore.  There are people it has to talk to.  Deals it has to make.  The blood, guts and determination of the Iraqi Resistance have certainly helped to take down the U.S. a few pegs, and they've shown others as well just how it's done'  These are just a few of the outward signs.  This war has hurt the U.S. far more than any of its ruling class is prepared to admit.  The financial cost must have been far in excess of what's publicly admitted, and the strength of example that the Iraqi Resistance (and Hezbollah) have shown recently is possibly going to play a large part as well in future developments.


BT

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Re: U.S. Caves on Talking to Iran - - after 30 Years
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2007, 02:34:21 PM »
That's one way of looking at it.

I think the status of al-sadr is at the heart of the talks.


Michael Tee

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Re: U.S. Caves on Talking to Iran - - after 30 Years
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2007, 04:15:55 PM »
<<I think the status of al-sadr is at the heart of the talks. >>

Yeah.  Which is something the world's mightiest super-power seems to be unable to do anything about all on its own.

BT

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Re: U.S. Caves on Talking to Iran - - after 30 Years
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2007, 04:21:30 PM »
Quote
Yeah.  Which is something the world's mightiest super-power seems to be unable to do anything about all on its own.
 

That's one way of looking at it.

The other way might be a subtle warning that interfering in al-sadr's fate could be costly.

ain't diplomacy grand?



domer

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Re: U.S. Caves on Talking to Iran - - after 30 Years
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2007, 04:30:47 PM »
Rather than adopt Michael's slash and burn attitude toward the US (even a positive development like this is cause for castigation to him) or BT's ever-cagey angling for an advantage, I suggest instead that the potential is there, building from a very defined and focused agenda, to broaden and enrich discourse in a full-blooded (pardon the image) exercise of diplomacy as it was intended.

BT

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Re: U.S. Caves on Talking to Iran - - after 30 Years
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2007, 05:17:56 PM »
There is that too

Michael Tee

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Re: U.S. Caves on Talking to Iran - - after 30 Years
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2007, 06:49:03 PM »
<<The other way might be a subtle warning that interfering in al-sadr's fate could be costly. >>

The point being that for thirty years the U.S. felt it could issue all the "subtle warnings" (some call them threats) it wanted to without actually submitting to the indignity of meeting with these ruffians face-to-face.  The ruffians always said they were willing to discuss matters with the Great Satan but the G.S. did not deign to meet with them.  Looks like (a) the ruffians weren't receptive in the slightest to the U.S. way it chose to deliver its "subtle warnings" and (b) the U.S. finally decided to get off its high horse, speak to the ruffians in the way they wished to be spoken to and has now decided, its threats having been exposed for the empty bombast that they are, it must "ask for" (translation, beg, plead, bargain with the Iranians) for something it desperately needs in Iraq but can't get on its own.

You can be sure the Iranians will not give their cooperation for nothing.  It is not they who are coming to the U.S. to ask for anything.  It is the U.S. which is coming to them.  Always an inauspicious way to begin a negotiation.  Had the U.S. extended its hand earlier, things might be very different.

<<ain't diplomacy grand?>>

For the U.S.A., diplomacy, not war, is the measure of last resort.  In their case, it indicates the desperation and weakness of a once-mighty power.  It's a well-deserved public humiliation, the more so since Iran is one of the world's premier violators of basic human rights, a country where homosexuals are publicly hung from cranes, religious dissidents such as the Bah'ai are raped and then tortured to death in prisons and where the state-employed murderers of journalists and intellectuals walk free in the streets.  A country which the U.S., itself not exactly a torture-free zone, felt free to denounce and castigate at will for its shameful record of atrocities.  And the U.S. now needs big favours from them and has to abandon its whole hypocritical act.  Sweet.

BT

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Re: U.S. Caves on Talking to Iran - - after 30 Years
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2007, 10:54:29 PM »
Mikey,

The US has been having proxy talks through the euro's for the last 5 years, so i don't really see any major change, nor do i expect any major results.

Michael Tee

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Re: U.S. Caves on Talking to Iran - - after 30 Years
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2007, 11:40:27 PM »
<<The US has been having proxy talks through the euro's for the last 5 years . . . >>

So what, the U.S. has been having proxy relations with Cuba through the Swiss embassy for 47 years.  The point isn't that they communicate or not, the point is the public humiliation involved for a so-called super-power who maintained the pose of not wishing to degrade itself by speaking officially with Country X suddenly having to speak officially with Country X - - i.e. forced to abandon its self-righteous pose - - which really says to the world (a) they're full of shit because they have to do something they swore they wouldn't do on principle; and (b) they are displaying weakness because if they didn't have to humiliate themselves, they wouldn't.

<< . . .  so i don't really see any major change>>

Huge change, BT.  This is a massive public humiliation for them.  Symbolic to be sure, but massive and humiliating nevertheless.

<< nor do i expect any major results. >>

Well, I'm with you there.  They won't get anything from the Iranians because they can't pay Iran's price.  They're just setting themselves up for more humiliation, yet they can't do anything else.  It's absolutely fascinating to watch the ineptness of the Bush Administration.  Just when you think they've plumbed the depths of embarrassing and humiliating their country and hit rock bottom, they come up with brand-new ways to shit on the face of the nation.