Author Topic: So much news, so little sense  (Read 4449 times)

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Amianthus

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Re: So much news, so little sense
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2007, 01:39:01 AM »
It's in such moments of tender intimacy that the bonds of marriage draw even tighter and the American family ever stronger.  Was it the frying pan or the rolling pin that she brained you with?

Oh yeah, BTW, you can wish us a happy 21st anniversary (which we just celebrated) as well. How are your marriage bonds?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: So much news, so little sense
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2007, 01:39:13 AM »
<<A hypothesis is an explanation for a set of data . . . ""

Sure.  But until the "explanation" has been tested, it's only a guess.  A guess called a "hypothesis."



Amianthus

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Re: So much news, so little sense
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2007, 01:40:34 AM »
Sure.  But until the "explanation" has been tested, it's only a guess.  A guess called a "hypothesis."

As I said, you failed to study in your science class.

But I knew that already.

A hypothesis is not a "guess."
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: So much news, so little sense
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2007, 01:52:04 AM »
<<Oh yeah, BTW, you can wish us a happy 21st anniversary (which we just celebrated) as well. How are your marriage bonds?>>

OK, happy 21st.  Our marriage bonds are not too bad.  We're gonna celebrate our 45th next month, we've got three great kids, two grandchildren (both born in the U.S.A. as it happens) and a third on the way here in Toronto.  And our younger daughter is getting married here in the spring of 08.  My hypothesis is that the marriage is built to last and the rest of my life will be the experiment that proves it. 

Michael Tee

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Re: So much news, so little sense
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2007, 01:55:52 AM »
<<As I said, you failed to study in your science class.

<<But I knew that already.>>

Actually, I aced every science class I took.  I just didn't make a career out of them.

<<A hypothesis is not a "guess.">>

Of course it's a guess.  If it weren't, nobody would bother to test it.

Universe Prince

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Re: So much news, so little sense
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2007, 02:05:18 AM »

Of course it's a guess.  If it weren't, nobody would bother to test it.


That sounds a lot like, "if it's fact then they wouldn't call it a theory."

A hypothesis is more like a supposition than it is a guess. Guessing implies making something up without any supporting evidence. A hypothesis by definition is based on observable evidence.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Amianthus

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Re: So much news, so little sense
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2007, 02:07:02 AM »
Actually, I aced every science class I took.  I just didn't make a career out of them.

Basic science classes can be aced by chimps.

Of course it's a guess.  If it weren't, nobody would bother to test it.

It's an explanation that may or may not be true, which is why it's tested. It's hardly a guess.

You're running along the same track that deniers of evolution use when they say that since it's a theory, it means it might not be true. You're just a little behind them...
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: So much news, so little sense
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2007, 02:11:32 AM »
<<Guessing implies making something up without any supporting evidence. A hypothesis by definition is based on observable evidence.>>

Not at all.  There are all kinds of guesses - - wild guesses, inspired guesses, shrewd guesses, informed guesses . . .

You assume all guesses are wild guesses, but they aren't.  A good scientist won't make wild guesses, but he'll make a reasoned guess, eliminate some of the wilder ones, and then test his guess, er, his hypothesis.

Amianthus

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Re: So much news, so little sense
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2007, 02:15:36 AM »
You assume all guesses are wild guesses, but they aren't.  A good scientist won't make wild guesses, but he'll make a reasoned guess, eliminate some of the wilder ones, and then test his guess, er, his hypothesis.

guess:
a. To predict (a result or an event) without sufficient information.
b. To assume, presume, or assert (a fact) without sufficient information.

A hypothesis is always formed from information.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: So much news, so little sense
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2007, 02:17:30 AM »
<<Basic science classes can be aced by chimps.>>

Speaking from personal experience?



<<You're running along the same track that deniers of evolution use when they say that since it's a theory, it means it might not be true.>>

I never told a denier of evolution that evolution was "true."  It IS just a theory.  That means it's only taken as truth as long as a better theory doesn't come along.  No real scientist would ever claim that a theory is "true."  He'd have to be some kind of fanatic to do that.  The problem with the deniers of evolution is that they don't have an alternative theory that fits the data as well as the theory of evolution does.  Not that evolution is "true" and their denial is "false."

<< You're just a little behind them...>>

Your problem is that you don't understand science,

Michael Tee

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Re: So much news, so little sense
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2007, 02:23:50 AM »
guess:
a. To predict (a result or an event) without sufficient information.
b. To assume, presume, or assert (a fact) without sufficient information.

A hypothesis is always formed from information.

----------------------------------------------------
So you're not only deficient in science, but in logic as well?  Or didn't you get the difference between "information" and "sufficient information?"

The hypothesis starts with original available information.  An experiment is devised to test the hypothesis.  New information arises from the experiment.  The new information plus the existing information together proves the hypothesis.  Now the hypothesis is no longer a guess.  Looking backwards, there was "insufficient information" to validate the hypothesis; based on insufficient information, it was a guess.  With the results of a successful experiment, more information became available.  Validating the hypothesis or guess.

Amianthus

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Re: So much news, so little sense
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2007, 02:31:50 AM »
Speaking from personal experience?

Yeah, I met plenty of chimps like you who aced the basic science classes in high school and thought they were all so there, while I went on to major in science (chemistry and engineering, specifically).
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: So much news, so little sense
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2007, 02:36:02 AM »
<<Yeah, I met plenty of chimps like you who aced the basic science classes in high school and thought they were all so there, while I went on to major in science (chemistry and engineering, specifically).>>

Well so far it looks to me like this chimp understands what a hypothesis is better than a science major in chemistry and engineering does.

Universe Prince

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Re: So much news, so little sense
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2007, 02:41:19 AM »

There are all kinds of guesses - - wild guesses, inspired guesses, shrewd guesses, informed guesses . . .


But now you're talking about general usage of the word 'guess'. Which is not the same as the meaning of guess and hypothesis as scientific terms. Words can have different meanings in different contexts. In general usage, a hypothesis can be a guess. In use as a scientific term, it is not a guess.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Amianthus

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Re: So much news, so little sense
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2007, 02:43:28 AM »
I never told a denier of evolution that evolution was "true."  It IS just a theory.  That means it's only taken as truth as long as a better theory doesn't come along.  No real scientist would ever claim that a theory is "true."

Not only do you not understand "hypothesis," you do not understand "theory" either.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)