Author Topic: Noonan's Dismay  (Read 4290 times)

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_JS

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Re: Noonan's Dismay
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2007, 03:24:49 PM »
Apologies, I got into the spirit of the '08 campaigning.

That's a good point on how elections effect policies. Of course, his party might appreciate a little more attention to the politically-selfish side of the equation ;) .
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
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Plane

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Re: Noonan's Dismay
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2007, 03:57:26 PM »
Apologies, I got into the spirit of the '08 campaigning.

That's a good point on how elections effect policies. Of course, his party might appreciate a little more attention to the politically-selfish side of the equation ;) .


How much can a Republican candidate refuse to carry a predecessors baggage?

BT

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Re: Noonan's Dismay
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2007, 06:57:26 PM »
The only GOP candidate  i can think of who might be tainted by this admin would be McCain, and he has taken enough contrary stances that he could seek cover in them.

I don't think McCain will make the first cut so the point is moot.


The_Professor

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Re: Noonan's Dismay
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2007, 07:37:51 PM »
The only GOP candidate  i can think of who might be tainted by this admin would be McCain, and he has taken enough contrary stances that he could seek cover in them.

I don't think McCain will make the first cut so the point is moot.



Why not?
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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

BT

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Re: Noonan's Dismay
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2007, 07:57:30 PM »
Quote
Why not?

Because the press might like a maverick when it suits them, i doubt the voters will.

And if the likely GOP primary voters are as mad about the immigration bill as they seem to be, Jon doesn't stand a chance.


The_Professor

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Re: Noonan's Dismay
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2007, 09:41:29 PM »
BT, look what jsut got posted today at CNN:

Manchester, New Hampshire (CNN) -- Immigration reform is proving to be a divisive issue for the Republican Party. But few prominent Republicans are feeling the heat like Sen. John McCain of Arizona, a fact that prompted the 2008 contender to address the issue head-on Monday.

"I'm not running to do the easy things," McCain told the Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce in a speech. "I defend with no reservation our proposal to offer the people who harvest our crops, tend our gardens, work in our restaurants, care for our children and clean our homes a chance to be legal citizens of this country."

McCain earned the ire of conservatives when he co-sponsored immigration reform legislation with Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Massachusetts, last year -- a proposal critics charged provided amnesty to illegal immigrants...McCain's campaign concedes the fire from the conservative wing of their party does not help them politically, but they said they are pragmatic.

The campaign knew the senator was not going to get a lot of "air cover" on this issue, so the decision was made to have him deal with it in Monday's speech and before Tuesday's Republican debate in New Hampshire.

To try and duck the issue, the campaign said, would not be in line with McCain's character.

Still, McCain's position may cost him with the very conservatives he's been trying to woo.

"There's this trust issue with conservatives and McCain and it's here [in New Hampshire] as well as elsewhere in the country," said Dante Scala, an associate professor at the New Hampshire Institute of Politics at Saint Anselm College, the site of Tuesday night's GOP presidential debate.

"The problem is every time something comes up or seems a little bit out of the mainstream of conservative thought, conservatives say 'oh see, this is another reason we can't trust him,' " Scala said.

see http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/04/mccain.immigration/index.html
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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Noonan's Dismay
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2007, 10:52:44 AM »
McCain is toast-in-waiting.

He was all for the Massive Surge.

The Massive Surge is unlikely to succeed by September, and certainly won't last much beyond that: they are running out of soldiers.

The public's best way of rejecting the Massive Surge is to vote against McCain. He is toast.

This time next year, he is likely to be toast, butter-side down, fallen in the garbage.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

The_Professor

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Re: Noonan's Dismay
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2007, 11:21:56 AM »
I do not believe the surge will achieve it's desired result either. But McCain's problems are alot more than the surge. He is not a very good candidate from many angles.

Doesn't matter; a Democrat will be the next President anyway...sigh.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2007, 01:19:53 PM by The_Professor »
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Noonan's Dismay
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2007, 12:18:16 PM »
Doesn't matter; a Democrat will be the next President anyway...sigh.

================================================
Thank God!

The Republicans committed suicide by nominating Juniorbush and Cheney. They were, and continue to be, incompetent, stubborn, spendthrift, corrupt  buffoons.

James Buchanon being dead ans all, it is difficult to conceive that the Democrats could nominate anyone worse than the aforemantioned Dingbat Duo.

What?, you want Rove in the WH again?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Noonan's Dismay
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2007, 12:26:13 PM »
A Democratic President may have less problem implementing a tough war on terror .

BT

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Re: Noonan's Dismay
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2007, 12:45:54 PM »
I disagree that a dem president is a given. They have a long and proud history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

GOP members may be vocal about the immigration bill, but the dems put it over the top and a lot of their base are folks who directly compete with illegals for jobs.

Plane

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Re: Noonan's Dismay
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2007, 12:47:55 PM »
I disagree that a dem president is a given. They have a long and proud history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

GOP members may be vocal about the immigration bill, but the dems put it over the top and a lot of their base are folks who directly compete with illegals for jobs.



Aren't thay able to depend on the illeagal vote?

BT

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Re: Noonan's Dismay
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2007, 02:02:23 PM »
Quote
Aren't thay able to depend on the illeagal vote?

At the expense of blue collar votes?

Which are there more of?

How many people do you know in the construction industry. How much have their wages suffered?

Framers, Sheetrockers, painters, bricklayers, cement workers? Is that a demographic the democrats want to write off?

Where is Jim Marshall on this issue, and is he mainstreamed with the dems?



The_Professor

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Re: Noonan's Dismay
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2007, 02:40:38 PM »
Jim Marshall on Immigration:
   
Voted NO on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment. (May 2004)
Rated 0% by FAIR, indicating a voting record loosening immigration. (Dec 2003)

Jim Marshall on Jobs:
   
Voted YES on end offshore tax havens and promote small business. (Oct 2004)
Rated 87% by the AFL-CIO, indicating a pro-union voting record. (Dec 2003)
 
http://www.ontheissues.org/GA/Jim_Marshall.htm


 
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                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Noonan's Dismay
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2007, 05:42:05 PM »
Aren't thay able to depend on the illeagal vote?

======================================
This is like the Jehovah's Witless vote.

Illegals are not registered, they are not officially here at all.

They don't vote, though perhaps some of their relatives do.
 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."