Author Topic: Libby Myths  (Read 4670 times)

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Michael Tee

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Re: Libby Myths
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2007, 02:24:09 PM »
<<AND........gotta love those ever frequent ommissions...........at NO TIME did Fitzgerald OFFICIALLY
<<A) Designate Plame as covert
<<or
<<B) Indict anyone for "outing a covert agent" (which is a criminal offense)>>

First of all, if Fitzgerald didn't have enough evidence to charge anyone with outing Plame, then he wouldn't have had any business making a finding on whether Plame was covert or not.  The grand jury doesn't issue empty indictments aimed at nobody.  They have to have a named suspect in order to indict.  They can't, as far as I understand these things, indict a John Doe.  IF they had a suspect, they would have indicted him or her with disclosing the identity of a covert agent, Valerie Plame.  Once the indictment was issued it would have gone to trial.  The trial would have dealt with the allegations, the defence of course would have been free to allege that Plame was NOT covert, and the verdict would have finally settled both issues.

The only thing definitively settled by the grand jury was that at that point in time they did not have evidence enough to base an indictment on.  Period.  They may not even have had a suspect, in which case it wouldn't have made any sense to even consider if Plame was or wasn't covert.  So failure to indict means just that - - no evidence at the time strong enough to put a man or woman on trial AND MAYBE (but not necessarily) no evidence that Plame was covert.

Michael Tee

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Re: Libby Myths
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2007, 02:33:12 PM »
<<You do realize that the PRIMARY job of Fitzgerald was to determine what transpired regarding the Plame situation??>>

That's not correct either.  This was a criminal investigation, not a commission of inquiry.

Usually the mandate in a criminal investigation is to determine whether any crimes have been committed and to prosecute those that are found.  That's how I know what Fitzgerald "probably" presented to the grand jury.  It has nothing to do with being his shrink, it's just plain common sense.  Unless the guy is a total moron, he must have suspected that one possible crime that might have been committed was the disclosure of the identity of a covert agent.

There's a big difference between not finding enough evidence of a crime to bring in an indictment and "officially" concluding that no crime has been committed.

P.S. considering this and my post just before it, I think I'll leave my confusion mirror pointing exactly where I had originally aimed it.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2007, 02:39:27 PM by Michael Tee »

sirs

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Re: Libby Myths
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2007, 02:38:59 PM »
And yet following all this grand illusionary rationalization and Tee-leaf spin the FACT remains:
at NO TIME did Fitzgerald OFFICIALLY
A) Designate Plame as covert
or
B) Indict anyone for "outing a covert agent" (which is a criminal offense)

Unless you're now going to argue that the Investigation really isn't over.  Is that the tact you're trying to facililtate?  Or did the evil Bush Co manage to shut down Fitzgerald before he could really get his goose going?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Libby Myths
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2007, 02:41:45 PM »
<<Unless you're now going to argue that the Investigation really isn't over. >>

Nope.  It's a simple concept to grasp, and I don't really know why you're having so much trouble with it:  the investigation came to no conclusion as to Plame's status at the time of the alleged leak.

sirs

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Re: Libby Myths
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2007, 02:46:29 PM »
<<Unless you're now going to argue that the Investigation really isn't over. >>

Nope.  It's a simple concept to grasp, and I don't really know why you're having so much trouble with it

Oh, due tell.  So Fitzgerald is still investigating the Plame case.  Strange how he seemed to have clearly presented his conclusions on the matter of the Plame investigation.  We still have a Grand jury convened I assume?  I haven't heard of any recent testimony being presented.  Perhaps you can shed some light on it.  Is it being handled down in Cheney's bunker?  Just FYI, links will be much more helpful vs your say so
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Libby Myths
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2007, 03:03:48 PM »
sirs, quoting MT:  <<Nope.  It's a simple concept to grasp, and I don't really know why you're having so much trouble with it>>

Gotta love those frequent omissions.  Thanks for quoting me, but if you don't mind, I'll post what I actually said:

MT, full quote:  <<Nope.  It's a simple concept to grasp, and I don't really know why you're having so much trouble with it:  the investigation came to no conclusion as to Plame's status at the time of the alleged leak. >>



 sirs, commenting on the truncated quote:  <<Oh, due tell.  So Fitzgerald is still investigating the Plame case. >>

Don't know where you got that from, but obviously not from anything I ever posted.  I really don't know what goes on inside that delusional brain of yours, sirs, but anytime you want to engage me on anything I actually posted, here I am.  Otherwise, you're on your own.

Lanya

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Re: Libby Myths
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2007, 03:24:31 PM »
[]
 WAXMAN: And we begin that process today.

This hearing is being conducted in open session. This is appropriate, but it is also challenging. Ms. Wilson was a covert employee of the CIA. We cannot discuss all of the details of her CIA employment in open session.

I have met, personally, with General Hayden, the head of the CIA, to discuss what I can and cannot say about Ms. Wilson's service
. And I want to thank him for his cooperation and help in guiding us along these lines.

My staff has also worked with the agency to ensure these remarks do not contain classified information.

I have been advised by the CIA and that even now, after all that has happened, I cannot disclose the full nature, scope and character of Ms. Wilson's service to our nation without causing serious damage to our national security interests.

But General Hayden and the CIA have cleared these following comments for today's hearing.

During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was undercover. Her employment status with the CIA was classified information, prohibited from disclosure under Executive Order 12958.

At the time of the publication of Robert Novak's column on July 14, 2003, Ms. Wilson's CIA employment status was covert. This was classified information.


Ms. Wilson served in senior management positions at the CIA, in which she oversaw the work for other CIA employees and she attained the level of GS-14, Step 6, under the federal pay scale.

Ms. Wilson worked on some of the most sensitive and highly secretive matters handled by the CIA.

Ms. Wilson served at various times overseas for the CIA.

WAXMAN: Without discussing the specifics of Ms. Wilson's classified work, it is accurate to say that she worked on the prevention of the development and use of weapons of mass destruction against the United States.

In her various positions at the CIA, Ms. Wilson faced significant risks to her personal safety and her life. She took on serious risks on behalf of our country.

Ms. Wilson's work in many situations had consequence for the security of her colleagues, and maintaining her cover was critical to protecting the safety of both colleagues and others.

The disclosure of Ms. Wilson's employment with the CIA had several serious effects. First, it terminated her covert job opportunities with the CIA. Second, it placed her professional contacts at greater risk. And third, it undermined the trust and confidence with which future CIA employees and sources hold the United States.

This disclosure of Ms. Wilson's classified employment status with the CIA was so detrimental that the CIA filed a crimes report with the Department of Justice.

As I mentioned, Ms. Wilson's work was so sensitive that even now she is still prohibited from discussing many details of her work in public because of the continuing risks to CIA officials and assets in the field and to the CIA's ongoing work.

WAXMAN: Some have suggested that Ms. Wilson did not have a sensitive position with the CIA or a position of unusual risk. As a CIA employee, Ms. Wilson has taken a lifelong oath to protect classified information, even after her CIA employment has ended. As a result, she cannot respond to most of the statements made about her.

I want to make clear, however, that any characterization that minimizes the personal risk of Ms. Wilson that she accepted in her assignments is flatly wrong. There should be no confusion on this point.

Ms. Wilson has provided great service to our nation and has fulfilled her obligation to protect classified information admirably. And we're confident she will uphold it again today.

Well, that concludes the characterizations that the CIA is permitting us to make today. But to these comments, I want to add a personal note.

For many in politics, praising the troops and those who defend our freedom is second nature. Sometimes it's done in sincerity and sometimes it's done with cynicism, but almost always we don't really know who the people are, we don't know who those people are that are out there. They are abstract heroes, whether serving in the armed services or whether they're serving in the CIA.

WAXMAN: Two weeks ago, this committee met some real heroes face- to-face when we went to visit Walter Reed. Every member was appalled at what we learned: Our treatment of the troops didn't match our rhetoric.

Thankfully, Mrs. Wilson hasn't suffered physical harm and faces much more favorable circumstances now than some of the troops, some of the soldiers, that we met last week.

But she, too, has been one of those people fighting to protect our freedom. And she, like thousands of others, was serving our country bravely and anonymously.

She didn't ask that her identity be revealed, but it was, repeatedly. And that was an inexcusable breach of the responsibilities our country owes to her. Once again, our actions did not match our rhetoric.

I want to thank Mrs. Wilson for the tremendous service she gave to our country and recognize the remarkable personal sacrifices she and countless others have made to protect our national security.

You and your colleagues perform truly heroic work. And what happened to you not only should never have happened, but we should all work to make sure it never happens again.

Thank you very much.
[]
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Michael Tee

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Re: Libby Myths
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2007, 03:31:08 PM »
Thanks, Lanya.  I'm sure that sirs will just say that this is more evil liberal BS, and the evil liberal Move.On.org is not only pulling Waxman's strings, but probably General Hayden's as well.  The truth of course is known to sirs and the conservative movement generally, and they KNOW this is all bullshit.  Valerie Plame, BTW, does not exist.  She is a liberal media construct, created for the sole purpose of taking down good conservatives like the old Scootmeister.

Lanya

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Re: Libby Myths
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2007, 03:54:22 PM »
Michael, I can keep this up for years.   
What I find very amusing is the parsing of words that the RIght is doing now.   
I thought they didn't like hairsplitting and parsing.  Boy, was I wrong! They LOVE it.
It is, in fact, right up their alley.  They just don't like it when anyone outside of their group does it.


 
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Michael Tee

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Re: Libby Myths
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2007, 04:10:09 PM »
I know, it's hilarious.  Did you see their take on "Mission Accomplished?"  The "mission" was to topple Saddam Hussein and it was accomplished.  THEN they had a second mission, "to build a democracy" and it's, uh, NOT accomplished.

sirs

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Re: Libby Myths
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2007, 06:44:56 PM »
  :D    It is entertaining watching this song & dance routine from the likes of Lanya & Tee, especially when one realizes how facts to the looney left is like kryptonite to Superman.  The lies & gross distortions on "Mission Accomplished", WMD, and Plame's status is just status quo.  You'd think the proclaimation made by Lanya, way back when, that once the investigation was over and its conclusions made, she'd be content with it.  It's transparently apparent that in order to maintain how evil & sinister Bush must be, Plame HAS to be covert, to the likes of the looney left.  So of course any and all FACTS to the contrary must minimized (parcing words), if not ignored

SOP
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Libby Myths
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2007, 07:39:51 PM »
Quote
facts to the looney left is like kryptonite to Superman


Oh , i like that!

sirs

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Re: Libby Myths
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2007, 09:55:17 PM »
 ;)   I'm glad someone did
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Lanya

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Re: Libby Myths
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2007, 09:58:06 PM »
Facts to the Right are like Kryptonite to stupid (TM).
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sirs

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Re: Libby Myths
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2007, 10:06:06 PM »
Facts to the Right are like Kryptonite to stupid (TM).

Ummm, yea.  That of course makes alot of sense     ::)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle